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Interview with Paul Graham

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Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this is "health theater", especially mask mandates, which show high effectiveness and relatively low imposition on personal freedoms, considering the pandemic is currently ongoing .

Citation needed. Where are deaths increasing?

I’ll answer my own question:

India. India is a big country and deaths are going up there.

The US and Europe seem past it to me.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#152

Honestly I never found PG’s writing that insightful and ANSI Lisp was a bit of a pain to read That doesn’t take away from any of his success, which has been immense (anybody who has made over a billion is obviously amazing and had the ultimate life) but he has become too much of a cult figure in comparison to others in that stratosphere

> he has become too much of a cult figure I didn't know who PG was until recently. I knew he was well respected on HN but I've never found that much value in his blog posts either. Maybe people like his writings in the light of his achievements, rather than for their intrinsic values.

We used some of his essays in a freshmen writing class in college 7-ish years ago. I had no idea who he was at the time but the essays still made an impression.

This was a liberal-arts school and the professor had no particular technology or business background; I’m still not sure how she came across them.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s my opinion but that was a very one sided view. And I need to read more on this but I don’t think the way he pointed it out is how anyone is proposing wealth tax.

What's the opposing view, other than "they are rich, they can afford it + we really need the money for $good-things"? I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with the math or making a separate point about why we should do it anyway?

The point of the wealth tax is not to secure funding for "good things" but to intentionally sabotage the accumulation of wealth.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#154

"There is one though that I regret rejecting because it was an idea I'd always wanted to fund. I'd been looking for this company for years, and finally it showed up". Out of curiosity: any guesses what this company might be?

Complete outsider guess : Airtable.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dis-incentivizing wealth creation in general and taking ownership away from people that build companies. There's a compelling argument that growth (that accounts for human rights and protecting the environment) is the best way to help the most people the fastest: https://press.stripe.com/#stubborn-attachments . Policy that dis-incentivizes wealth creation creates perverse incentives that limit growth. We're bett…

> Wealth creation isn't zero-sum, just because someone builds a business and creates wealth doesn't mean they're taking it from others. It absolutely is zero sum - but not from the point of money, but from the point of view of another finite resource; human labour and talent. The fact that someone has more wealth than someone else means that the market will value their time/spend more than someone who is poor. Think…

> It absolutely is zero sum - but not from the point of money, but from the point of view of another finite resource; human labour and talent.

I think your point is less about wealth creation, and more about access to capital and how that influences who can fund what work. It's a subtle distinction, but I think an important one - and yes you're right access to capital and how capital is allocated is zero sum and this influences what work is done.

I don't think this is entirely a bad thing though because in a society with an effective market what makes money should be related to what people want. The incentive alignment that comes from this (and capitalism generally) has allowed the largest creation of wealth in human history (of which everyone benefits when you look at things like infant mortality, public health generally, standard of living, etc.).

This doesn't mean there aren't places to improve in terms of equality of opportunity for access to capital or that there shouldn't be rules to prevent incentives that can lead to outcomes worse for individuals and the group (see the fish farming story in this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/), but it also doesn't mean that the wealth tax or dis-incentivizing wealth creation is a good idea. Venture Capital is important here because it gives access to money to people and ideas that would have a hard time getting it otherwise (on bets that only occasionally pay off huge).

We want people to be incentivized to take risks and start companies that can create massive amounts of wealth and entire new industries. If you have a wealth tax, someone making a couple million a year as an investment banker will be less likely to leave and risk that money to create something since they'll probably get to the cap without doing that anyway.

Starting a company is already a pretty hard/risky decision to make, we don't want to make it harder.

> How many talented engineers work at Rolls Royce to create £250,000 cars which would be better put to use elsewhere? How many software engineers work at startups funded as a moonshot for the wealth of the founders work on CRUD apps where they could be working on something like scientific or educational tech? How much chemical engineering talent do we sink into cosmetics?

The way to fix this is with incentives that encourage people to go into areas society thinks are more worthwhile, but I think you're too dismissive of things like CRUD apps. Those things provide enormous value for the companies that need them (I think even cosmetics research has led to new medical knowledge).

That said, I agree with the spirit of your questions - I wish humanity was better at coordinating. There's so much we could do if we were better at coordinating. I think capitalism and incentivizing for wealth creation (with controls for human rights/environment) is the best we've got to make the most progress the fastest. It aligns human nature and rewards people that make things that people value.

There's a risk of a corrupting influence on liberal democracy that needs to be controlled (https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_...), but I think this is best structure for society to efficiently allocate resources/capital in a way that encourages the most wealth creation and growth.

Does this mean you end up with things like Las Vegas where human investment would be better off elsewhere? Yes, but I think that's an acceptable trade-off for everything else you get (and people like Las Vegas).

Attempts to remove the capitalist incentive structure and dictate what's important for people to do (or worse control how money is allocated to people) seems to lead to massive corruption and people doing what's necessary to get the money (which is often unrelated to actual success).

As far as Academi - I'm not arguing for unregulated, no-government, capitalism. Companies should provide value within society and society should enact legislation via elected representatives in some form of liberal democracy (and companies should operate within those laws). I may not agree with every action that happens here, but nobody will - and that's why we have liberal democracy to sort it out.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this is "health theater", especially mask mandates, which show high effectiveness and relatively low imposition on personal freedoms, considering the pandemic is currently ongoing .

Citation needed. Where are deaths increasing?

Here in Philadelphia, cases and deaths are both spiking. Not as bad yet as the peak from April but the pandemic certainly is not past us.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dis-incentivizing wealth creation in general and taking ownership away from people that build companies. There's a compelling argument that growth (that accounts for human rights and protecting the environment) is the best way to help the most people the fastest: https://press.stripe.com/#stubborn-attachments . Policy that dis-incentivizes wealth creation creates perverse incentives that limit growth. We're bett…

Billionaires often make compelling arguments for why they should get to keep their money (Paul Graham and Elon Musk being two examples). I disagree with their point of view because: 1. My neighbour having enough food to eat and a warm house is a form of wealth FOR ME. 2. If wealth that is generated is taxed, this means that it is harder to accumulate wealth, this means that the people that do manage to accumulate wea…

> 1. My neighbour having enough food to eat and a warm house is a form of wealth FOR ME.

I want that too, but it's unrelated to a wealth tax or the existence of billionaires. I'd argue the wealth tax dis-incentivizes growth and makes it less likely your neighbor could have enough to eat and a warm house. We can and should improve the lower bound of society, but you don't do this by taxing wealth and dis-incentivizing growth.

> 2. If wealth that is generated is taxed, this means that it is harder to accumulate wealth, this means that the people that do manage to accumulate wealth have better qualities than the people that do so in a tax free environment. And thus they make better decisions about how to allocate their money.

I don't think this follows. Maybe it's harder so only the nastiest people attempt to do it and fight more with each other since their wealth decays over time? I don't have strong opinions on this, it's just not very compelling.

> 3. Billionaires are not accountable to anyone for how they spend their wealth. This is fine if they are all like Musk. But they are not. Of the countless number, only two are trying to build rockets to Mars. Counter examples are Osama Bin Laden and the guys who funded the NRA. If the wealth is taxed then it is fought over in a shared space in which we all have a say, no matter how small.

Yeah - on this we agree, there should be restrictions (there actually are some on political contributions and obviously things that are illegal/sanctioned). Limits on how wealth translates into political power should exist and probably need to be better. This is a different issue than a wealth tax and dis-incentivizing growth.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#158
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I didn't know whether I'll be born in the bottom 1% or top 1%, I'd still choose a society that incentivizes wealth creation. Poor people in those societies are the richest poor people in the world. They have more prospects, they have more rights and they have more access to the benefits of civilization like education or electricity than the societies that promote the idea of taking away someone's property and make…

Wealth taxes are common in Europe. But not in Africa.

Africa is huge so this comment in isolation doesn't really mean anything.

What parts of Africa? Liberal democracy and capitalism are prerequisites before you can make a wealth-tax no wealth-tax comparison.

People in this thread are also confusing protecting the lower bound in society with taxing wealth. This confusion only makes sense when you think wealth creation is zero-sum (it's not). You can protect the lower bound of society (Europe does a better job of this than the US generally) and incentivize growth/wealth creation.

You don't have to choose one, you can choose both.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#159

I'm hoping we don't continue to see yc turn into 'the old guard'. YC folks, startups & the people yc startup school attracts that I've personally spoken to in the past few years are more imitator-types. YC folks & startups of 2009 were more authentic & original types. Though I suppose it's tough to avoid this deterioration in culture following $-influx & 'success', in any domain.

2009 era YC was epic. Literally once in a century. I was happy to be around, if not involved. Startup School afterparty at Anybots was a dream. Trevor even pinched me with his new robot (at my request). There were posers even back then, though. I remember one guy getting very drunk, saying “Ok, this is it,” and walking up to pg to pitch his startup. I’m not sure who I felt worse for, him or pg.

I realise this will sound negative, but: what made 2009 era YC a once in a century thing? I’m trying to think of the companies that came out of it that truly shook the earth and I’m coming up blank.

Re: Interview with Paul Graham

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dis-incentivizing wealth creation in general and taking ownership away from people that build companies. There's a compelling argument that growth (that accounts for human rights and protecting the environment) is the best way to help the most people the fastest: https://press.stripe.com/#stubborn-attachments . Policy that dis-incentivizes wealth creation creates perverse incentives that limit growth. We're bett…

> Wealth creation isn't zero-sum, just because someone builds a business and creates wealth doesn't mean they're taking it from others. It absolutely is zero sum - but not from the point of money, but from the point of view of another finite resource; human labour and talent. The fact that someone has more wealth than someone else means that the market will value their time/spend more than someone who is poor. Think…

The only reason wealth creation is not zero sum is because of the way it's defined. I can redefine anything zero sum to be not. Slicing a pie into pieces and sharing it is non-zero because there was no joy of sharing before! Etc.
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