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Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

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Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#151

Post by ninjinxo »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #62
bdcravens wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the value of their charity greater than the cost of the country losing their talent? The "teach a man to fish" proverb comes to mind.

It is. Infrastructure, strong simple institutions simply do not exist. And these people brain drained for a while and coming back later is better for those countries.

Do you have any actual examples or research? Remittance and charity didn't exactly help East Germany prosper after the mass exodus of its young, professionals, and farmers...

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#152

Post by bruceb »

burkaman wrote: post #129
belval wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear I have no skin in the game (not from the US), but if the GP's claims are true, then I was misled because I did think that the 40% that gets thrown around was founded only by immigrants. Does it change my view on immigration? Of course not, but it does indicate that if immigration was stopped entirely then it is not true to say that that 40% slice of fortune 500 companies would simply never have been found…

I mean if somebody told you "40% of fortune 500 companies are founded by first generation immigrants" that wasn't true, but I've never heard that, and I can't immediately find an article that says that. The claim as stated here, "40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families", is very straightforward.

BS. What is the image that comes to mind with: "40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families" Sounds like they were solely responsible for creating this company.

Now a more precise statement: 40% of Fortune 500 companies had at least one immigrant or American with at least 1 immigrant parent on found team. Changes the image in one's mind a lot. Why not actually be straightforward instead of misleading?

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#153

Post by msbarnett »

colechristensen wrote: post #54
Forgeties79 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It’s the law” is a terrible rationale though. Our values should inform our laws and their interpretation, not the other way around. There is a clear externality forcing this situation and it is clearly more detrimental to force them out of the country than to just make special accommodations/provisions. Pass a bill if that makes it more palatable and set it to have a termination date with the ability to “re-up” if t…

Some logic needs to come in too though, what is the point of an international student renting an apartment in the US and taking a class over the Internet? Student visas make good sense, allow people from around the world to come here and get an education which is better or different and have a cultural exchange... but if coming here just gets you the cultural exchange of going to the grocery store and watching lectur…

> what is the point of an international student renting an apartment in the US and taking a class over the Internet?

They're two years into a program, didn't create the circumstances that are forcing them to take their education entirely online, and the notion that they can return to their home country and participate in classes that might be happening at 3:00 am local time seems pretty far fetched?

Most of these upper-level online classes are participatory, not Coursera-style "watch a recording".

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#155

Post by jhpriestley »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #92
jhpriestley wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The missing context on your comment is that the CIS is a hate group according to the SPLC, which is among other heinous things in favor of the family separation policy, a crime against humanity.

SPLC is a joke nowadays. They scoop up all sorts of names and label them hatemongers. It takes a lawsuit to get them to recant: [1] 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/maajid-...

If you think that one high-profile mistake makes them "a joke" then you might not be aware of how much work SPLC does. For example, here is their page on CIS, with hundreds of citations and direct quotes https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou...

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#156

Post by sg47 »

screenbeam wrote: post #82
three_seagrass wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's another measurable, negative impact of the America First philosophy [1]. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families [2][3], so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) [2] F500 2010: http://research.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/20... (pdf) [3] F500 2017: https://startupsusa.org/fortune500/

America first is a great policy. Our people need jobs and our policies should reflect that.

Your statement proves why you need immigrants to do high-skilled work.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#157

Post by jtdev »

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

Or, maybe American’s have grown tired of educating state sponsored (China) students whose sponsors quite literally seek to exfiltrate knowledge from U.S. academia and industry. Do you think I as an American would be welcome to attend a Chinese university 100% remotely? Do you think China would allow any American to attend a program in China that could help the U.S. build a competitive or defensive advantage?

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#158

Post by blue11 »

The whole thing is optimized for maximum cruelty, but the suggestion that students should transfer to another school that has in-person classes is just mockery.

In normal times transferring to another college is a process that takes 9-10 months. The admission rate for transfer applications is really low. And that's just for domestic transfer students. It is not even theoretically possible to transfer to another school in a couple of months. Not to mention that the F-1 student visa and the I-20 form needed to obtain such a visa are for a specific school only, so international students would also have to go back to their home countries and obtain new visas.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#159

Post by msbarnett »

thehappypm wrote: post #47
dopamean wrote: post #32

Seems like bs to me. If you're on the other side of the planet you're expected to be online at 3am for lectures and exams? Ridiculous.

You’ve clearly never taken an online class. Lectures are recorded, exams are usually flexible open windows

My wife was taking a university course that was forced online last semester due to COVID-19. It was completely real-time, 0% recorded.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#160

Post by filoleg »

bruceb wrote: post #96
zasz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every international student has a good internet connection at home, and collaborating with students in the US could be extremely different if they come from a very different time zone.

If you can study in the US, generally you are not poor. You are paying high rent in the US. They can afford more than one internet connection with mostly likly significantly reduce living costs.

Not just "generally". People bemoan high costs of college education in the US (and I tend to agree with them), not realizing that for international students, the tuition pricing alone can be easily twice the cost it is for out-of-state-students (which is already at least twice the cost for in-state students).

International students pay twice the price of tuition alone, not even mentioning all other extra expenses they have to pay. And since they cannot utilize a lot of financial aid available to US residents (federal student loans, certain scholarships, etc.), they pretty much have to have a lot of money in cash to be able to just pay for college.

Note: I am not saying that since they are very likely rich, they deserve to deal with all those struggles. And I get it, there could be some international students who come from a far-from-wealthy family, where all their money were pooled towards their college education. That seems to be a rare exception though, from what I have observed (haven't met a single international student like that, but plenty of the former kind).

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