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Why are you people defending Apple?

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Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#151

Post by burgerbrain »

bane wrote: post #125
burgerbrain wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know you, and haven't conversed with you, so I can't speak for how you support Apple. I simply oppose people who will defend any action, no matter how absurd, because they support the people behind that action in most other cases. You'll see all sorts of gymnastics used to justify it, but it really boils down to people supporting things they wouldn't normally, were they outside of context of their 'affiliatio…

People tend to build their identities around their affiliation. Attacking Apple probably makes him feel like you are attacking him. Similarly his support of Apple is merely him supporting his own identity. It's silly, I know, but people do that all the time. It's freakishly hard for people caught in the identity/affiliation trap to disentangle that aspect of their psyche's. It's often why you can observe fantastic le…

I absolutely agree. I think the trick is realizing that the mechanism is exactly the same for apple as it is with any other "affiliation"; Apple just happens to be particularly effective at it. Democrats and Republicans can get by with painting the opposition as Communists or Facists (who is supposed to be who? it seems to change every other week...) whereas Apple goes with "cool" vs. "lame", or variations of.

Almost universally I believe, the tendency of humans to fall for it stiffles critical thought. I don't delude myself by thinking I can put an end to it (it probably is just basic human nature), but I do oppose it when I recognize it.

Aside: what are your thoughts on the concept of 'hipster'? (the popularity of liking unpopular' things) I would like to think that perhaps it's some sort of "immune response meme" to the phenomenon, but I fear that is wishful thinking at best.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#152

Post by ubernostrum »

nooneelse wrote: post #14
coffeedrinker wrote: post #3

They are trying to force content producers to work exclusively with Apple. I can up the cost to the end user _as long as I stay only with Apple_. Once I move my product to a second competing device, then it really hurts profit because the price has to stay the same. Once they become the exclusive provider, then they continue to dominate the market, regardless of what other tablets and operating systems come along.

Actually having the same content/product sold through both Apple and somewhere else is an interesting case. Between the two distribution channels, in which do you put your R&D or advertising dollar when channel Apple returns 30% less per customer gained there versus channel other?

Well.

First up, I suspect this policy won't last long; the most likely explanation for it that I can see is that Apple's trying to figure out what the market will bear. Which, you know, is something they tend to do fairly often with the iOS platform, and sometimes it works the first try and they stick to the policy, and sometimes it doesn't and they change it.

But as far as choosing where to focus money, I think Apple's banking on the fact that nobody else in the mobile space has the kind of integrated platform and distribution channel iOS has. There's a lot of attraction there, especially given that the alternatives (i.e., Android) not only aren't there yet, but aren't even close to getting there.

So right now, if I had to choose where to put my budget, I'd put it into iOS without a second thought; sure, Apple's going to get a cut, but the reduced overhead and relative ease (if I want broad exposure on Android, how many app stores do I have to market my content in? How many carriers do I have to sign deals with to get promoted? etc.), combined with an existing and known-to-be-loyal installed base for the platform, would suggest to me that I'm going to make up the difference pretty quickly.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#153

Post by Cadsby »

I'm not saying I agree with Apple's new policies, but I don't remember seeing any outrage when Amazon was taking a whopping 70% of ebook sales, while simaltenously instituting a most favored nation clause which made it impossible for publishers to sell their books cheaper via any other distribution channel.

Unfortunately Apple brings out the fanboy in some, while also bringing out the rabid anti-Apple sentiment in others. I wish the hyper emotion would get toned down on both sides.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#154

Post by lotusleaf1987 »

chc wrote: post #39
neutronicus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's no money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. It sounds like being on iOS as opposed to Android is worth money to you. That's what Apple thinks too. Either prove them wrong or pay the piper.

Yes, fighting a monopoly is often a losing proposition. This is already well-known. Ask Netscape. Does the fact that Apple's appeal comes from its monopoly position somehow make its actions less of a shakedown?

|Yes, fighting a monopoly is often a losing proposition

Do you even know what a monopoly is? Because based off your comment I don't think you do.

"In economics, a monopoly (from Greek monos / μονος (alone or single) + polein / πωλειν (to sell)) exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

So tell me what product does Apple have a monopoly on? Laptops? No. Cell phones? No. Mp3 players? No. App store? No: https://market.android.com/

There are alternatives to Apple, you just don't like them.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#155

Post by whatusername »

halostatue wrote: post #112
whatusername wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality for the case study -- I'll likely just leave it as a web app. I'm more comfortable with the web anyway. Or if it did go IOS native -- It would just be a free service. re: 3. I worked on the worst-case assumption of SaaS Issues.. Isn't that seperate pricing though? If you have person A paying $200 for Bootcamp + App and person B paying $200 for App, isn't there a problem? I'm wouldn't be concerned about new…

No; for some other posts on this, I did some checking in the agreement and IAP is explicitly disallowed for rental content or services or for goods or services for use outside of the app. Let's play with your case study a little more, though (it's fun!): Because IAP cannot be used for goods or services outside of the app, your IAP subscription would have to be clear that it's for access to the premium feed only and n…

So as long as I convince Apple that the Bootcamp is $199 and the App is $1 then I don't have an issue (Unless non-IOS bootcampers catch wind and want a discount :P)

In terms of structure -- it will be more of a saas app -- Food/exercise diary with integration into the bootcamp client systems.. So all of your bootcamp workouts/measurements/results are already entered for you. That was my concern as the key feature of the app was to essentially see your bootcamp results and to give your trainer a look at your food diary. Which wont happen unless you're paying the $200 and actually there in meatspace....

// Of course -- I guess we could move into virtual coaching / training / etc... Getting workout and diet plans out of the app for a much higher monthly fee... that might be worth paying the 30% to Apple for as our clients wouldn't be ones we could reach elsewhere.. hmmm... this has potential.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#157

Post by mkramlich »

Bossman wrote: post #2

And people wonder why I hate the walled approach Apple takes. The article makes another great point about people not being able to leave iOS devices for a competitor because all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices. Apple deserves to have control over their own platform, but this is getting a little crazy. The extra fee wouldn't be so bad if developers could inc…

> and aren't even allowed to post links to their site in the app anymore.

whoa. first time I heard this. if this is true, it's probably straws[final+5] for me. goodbye native iOS app development, hello mobile multi-platform web apps and Android apps.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#158

Post by mkramlich »

coffeedrinker wrote: post #8
InclinedPlane wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now everyone should know, if they didn't before, why Apple is no Microsoft. Apple isn't content to create a platform, they want to own everything. They want a walled garden, they want captive users, they want to be able to demand exorbitant profit margins in perpetuity. Mostly benign monarchies may seem very attractive at first glance, but over time abuse of power is inevitable and then it's too late.

I wonder how much content will end up simply as web apps and web sites and then it won't matter what platform the end user chooses. I've changed my focus from iOS to web because of Apple's policies.

> I've changed my focus from iOS to web because of Apple's policies.

Bingo!

I leaned that way before as well. recent events just reinforced my decision to do the same. i've got one iOS native app in the pipeline for a startup client now. but it will hopefully be my last. there are just too many business ideas, too many features and experiences I can deliver quite satisfactorily as a desktop-friendly & mobile-friendly website, or on Android, to have to put up with this Nazi behavior on Apple's part anymore. i demand the ability to have whatever features I want, whatever content I want, do billing however I want, design my UI whatever way I think best, use whatever tools I want, and make new releases when and how I want, with no more bureaucracy, rituals or dumbass XCode quirks and mole-whacking. No more.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#159

Post by rahoulb »

reedF211 wrote: post #138

I'm completely disgusted by Apple's behaviour on this topic. Apple should be ashamed of itself for gouging developers. This is like if someone has a bakery in Des Moines, IA and then wants to expand to New York, and the city of New York insists that the price of cake the bakery charges be the same or lower than the price in Des Moines where the rent and operation costs are a fraction of what they are in NYC. This kin…

It's not worse than Microsoft.

Apple does not have a monopoly in mobile devices. Apple is acting as a distributor and asking for a cut for being that distributor. There are other equally viable distributors - web apps, Android, maybe even WP7.

I'm sure the Angry Birds or Pixelmator people don't begrudge Apple taking a cut for giving them a massive amount of marketing and promotion - as well as an ultra-simple way of receiving payment (still a major stumbling block in the online world).

The key thing is how they enforce the external restrictions. It does make sense to say you need to offer the same terms externally as inside the App Store - to the consumer. The problem is that this can appear totally unreasonable to the developer. It all depends on enforcement - if they go after 30% of Highrise revenue because 37Signals have a native client we will know things are wrong.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#160

Post by [deleted] »

reedF211 wrote: post #138

I'm completely disgusted by Apple's behaviour on this topic. Apple should be ashamed of itself for gouging developers. This is like if someone has a bakery in Des Moines, IA and then wants to expand to New York, and the city of New York insists that the price of cake the bakery charges be the same or lower than the price in Des Moines where the rent and operation costs are a fraction of what they are in NYC. This kin…

[deleted]
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