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Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

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Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#151

We should be less worried about overt propaganda like DeepFakes and more worried about the assumptions baked into the media of all imperialist nations, the misdirection, and the selection of "what" to report on. States have been lying to us since time immemorial, and they don't need fancy video evidence to do it. But this is a cool demo, and since the Genie is out of the bottle, this can be a great tool. You could us…

What is a non-“imperialist” nation, and what makes you think their media is any better?

The rest of your comment I agree with, but attributing it to “the media of imperialist nations” instead of just being a property of media organisations in general, is wrong.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#152

Part of me feels that the widespread proliferation of deep fakes can potentially be positive. Seeing will no longer be believing and society will be forced to look at things with a more critical and skeptical eye or with a higher level of diligence. Value should also shift back to more legitimate sources. The transition will certainly suck though.

>Seeing will no longer be believing and society will be forced to look at things with a more critical and skeptical eye or with a higher level of diligence.

That's not what will happen. What will happen is that people will consider video which corroborates their biases to be legitimate, and video which contradicts their biases to be fraudulent. Bear in mind that skepticism is already on the rise - the web is rife with it, to the point that any news source whose reporting isn't sufficiently paranoid, cynical or piss-taking is dismissed out of hand as likely propaganda, yet this widespread mistrust in just about everything hasn't resulted in a rise in critical thinking or due diligence, rather the opposite, because it's easy for people to live in self-perpetuating alternate universes with multiple positive feedback loops provided through the web reinforcing their filter bubbles.

>Value should also shift back to more legitimate sources.

It might, if anyone believed that legitimate sources existed anymore outside of 4chan, Reddit and Comedy Central. Unfortunately it seems as if we as a society have decided to abandon the premise that objective truth exists, as the world around us is fed to us more and more as abstractions by untrustworthy arbiters. Deepfakes aren't going to help solve the problem of who can be trusted to "legitimize" truth in a "post-truth" world.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#153
post #131

Deep fakes are yet another prime example of how the writing is on the wall (i.e. it's clear that this technology can/will be used for nefarious purposes - esp. by our enemies) and yet mitigations - through regulation and enhanced standards - won't be pursued until long after the horses have left the barn. I don't know how/what form this should take, but an older analogy might be how colour photocopier manufacturers i…

This comment is so egregiously out of touch I hesitate to even respond at all, let alone to do so civilly, however in the interest of discussion I'm going to try to. Which "enemy" do you envision would use deep fakes for a nefarious purpose, yet will stop short once they realize there are - gasp! - regulations around them? And as far as I'm aware, at least in the United States, there are no regulations requiring the…

It just reminds me of my 85-year old grandfather who still in 2019 maintains that photocopiers should be banned for private ownership because people can make illegal copies of documents on them.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deepfakes is just a scary new word for what people would call "CGI" or "VFX". "Ryzen 3950x" is just a scary new word for "z80" or "6502". Deepfakes don't provide any fundamentally new capability, but they do reduce the cost and time required to create a convincing fake video by multiple orders of magnitude. That completely changes the threat model, from "our propaganda rival occasionally releases a fake video that…

> Deepfakes don't provide any fundamentally new capability I'm not sure this is entirely true, although your larger point is quite good. People have been faking video since the dawn of video, yes. But for several decades, a clear, high-res video of a specific person has been pretty much inviolate. Faking a steady closeup of a president or famous actress would have been unthinkable - no VFX hoax ever convincingly impe…

To me Tarkin felt much more natural than Leia in that film. Maybe people with more "official" face expression are in danger sooner.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York Post story you linked is just a write up of original reporting done by CBS. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-maria-f...

That article is from nov 18th versus 5th? Besides, for credibility they should have been writing about the obvious problems with Epstein, and everyone but fringe outlets were basically silent over the last decade(s), and in some cases complicit (abc news).

Both articles are from November 18th. The New York Post one is from four hours later and just summarizes the CBS interview. Your New York Post article links to the CBS one and leads with a picture of the woman telling her story on CBS.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#156
post #131

Deep fakes are yet another prime example of how the writing is on the wall (i.e. it's clear that this technology can/will be used for nefarious purposes - esp. by our enemies) and yet mitigations - through regulation and enhanced standards - won't be pursued until long after the horses have left the barn. I don't know how/what form this should take, but an older analogy might be how colour photocopier manufacturers i…

This comment is so egregiously out of touch I hesitate to even respond at all, let alone to do so civilly, however in the interest of discussion I'm going to try to. Which "enemy" do you envision would use deep fakes for a nefarious purpose, yet will stop short once they realize there are - gasp! - regulations around them? And as far as I'm aware, at least in the United States, there are no regulations requiring the…

I get your point your making, but I think your reacting a bit harshly. We don't need one regulation that solves all our problems. We can have 'defense in depth'.

Current laws that put microdot detection in color scanners will not deter huge resources to counterfeiting like state backed operations. But they do prevent the local meth junkie down the road from making a bunch of fake 20's to get his next fix.

At the sametime, the paper that we use is also highly regulated. Its not impossible to get something that is similar, but its not easy. (and not cheap).

The points of all these layers, is to prevent the casual and common crimes. By doing that, you can spend your resources on the larger operations.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could blockchain give us a secure audit trail for digital video clips?

The blockchain could provide a timestamp, but it's hard to see how that would help. Every type of video authentication system I've ever heard proposed can be defeated by simply pointing a 'trusted' video camera at a screen playing a fake video.

I suppose you could have 'trusted devices' where upon taking pictures/videos a hash of the file is committed to blockchain. Although a privacy nightmare.

This obviously wouldn't solve the 'no fake videos' problem but would least mean 'this video isn't fake' for a select subset. There could be tiers of information in the future where this audited media is weighted higher.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bigger problem is it provides deniability and removes accountability. The "I never said that" kind.

Could blockchain give us a secure audit trail for digital video clips?

Well blockchain can solve any problem, and everyone working with it is totally reputable and competent, so what could possibly go wrong?

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#159
post #98

Deep fakes are yet another prime example of how the writing is on the wall (i.e. it's clear that this technology can/will be used for nefarious purposes - esp. by our enemies) and yet mitigations - through regulation and enhanced standards - won't be pursued until long after the horses have left the barn. I don't know how/what form this should take, but an older analogy might be how colour photocopier manufacturers i…

This comment kinda scares me, because it is exactly that panicky reaction that makes all these stupid regulations come to life, and you are reminding me that it's not really "just stupid politicians", but in fact scared, easy to manipulate crowds behind them.

What if we put the regulations and enhanced standards on to the people who we are most worried will abuse our trust? We'll never be able to stop a malicious actor from Deepfaking our leaders and spreading disinformation, but at the very least we should have something in place to make sure our leaders aren't the malicious actors using Deepfakes and react accordingly with punishments when they are.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've also had video since before convincing photo edits were available. So people learned that we shouldn't trust a photo of Martians, or a sound clip of the President confessing to murder, but should hold out for video. When footage of Rob Ford doing crack cocaine shows up, we believe it's real. And when an investigative reporter wants a verifiable record of something, they resort to a high-quality video. Even if v…

Firstly, Ford was already known for that behavior. The bar of legitimacy was low. The famous early nazi fakes; looping rows of tanks and troops to suggest more, was indeed effective, and nothing new. We have been in this space for nearly a century already.

"Video can be used to mislead" is nothing new, but I'll still argue that we're watching a very specific new door open. From the first days of high-fidelity video to the recent past, there has never been a time when someone could fake this type of content.

Faking a clear, unbroken closeup of a recognizable person has never been a serious option before this. Even when Hollywood had likeness rights and massive budgets, it resorted to rewrites and old B-roll footage when actors died mid-shoot. When people wanted to slander politicians, even state actors with Cold War budgets, they edited photos, faked audio recordings, or staged candid, hard-to-see footage. In the modern era of CGI and digital video editing, bad actors still resorted to misleading edits and out-of-context clips. This, though, is 20 seconds of clear, closeup video of an incredibly famous face. And the fake was good enough that even placed in an art exhibition centered on something that never happened, some viewers thought it was real footage.

I don't share the popular paranoia that deepfakes of politicians are going to start upending democracy; there have always been plenty of people fervently convinced by manipulative video, altered pictures, or simple "somebody said so" lies. What's new is the increasing difficulty of proving truth in the most trusted contexts. Validating even a very narrow claim like "at some point in the past, for some reason, the President said this exact sentence in front of a video camera" is increasingly difficult.

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