Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life • Hacker News Board

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#31

Post by umvi » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

lefstathiou wrote: post #20

Part of me feels that the widespread proliferation of deep fakes can potentially be positive. Seeing will no longer be believing and society will be forced to look at things with a more critical and skeptical eye or with a higher level of diligence. Value should also shift back to more legitimate sources. The transition will certainly suck though.

More likely it will further reinforce echo chambers so that people will truly only see what they want to believe and nothing more. Anything they disagree with or is inconvenient to their worldview is "deep fake"

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#32

Post by vernie » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

TimMurnaghan wrote: post #2

It still looks wrong. There's still some of the floating/stuck-on head feeling about it. Or is that just because we already know it's fake from the headline? (... and the way that the flag moves is totally wrong .../s).

The disparity between his speech and head movement makes it looks like he's suffering from Parkinson's disease.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#33

Post by umvi » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

hello_1234 wrote: post #5

The audio is so realistic. I could have been fooled easily.

And how do you know this video isn't real history and all the other Apollo videos aren't deep fakes? Answer seems obvious now, but once the generation that was alive during Apollo dies off, this is a likely conspiracy candidate that will take root in some skeptical future generation.

We are increasingly living in an age of misinformation where it is becoming more difficult to tell what is true and what is not without significant effort.

This tech I'm sure CCP will use extensively to shape history/propaganda however they want.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#34

Post by eutropia » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

We should be less worried about overt propaganda like DeepFakes and more worried about the assumptions baked into the media of all imperialist nations, the misdirection, and the selection of "what" to report on. States have been lying to us since time immemorial, and they don't need fancy video evidence to do it.

But this is a cool demo, and since the Genie is out of the bottle, this can be a great tool. You could use it to force those who speak in public the most to be accountable for the things that they don't say, or equivocate on, by making videos of them saying it, and forcing them to go on the record denying the video, in contradiction to their established (unspoken) position.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#35

Post by cvwright » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #12

jedberg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d have to be paying real close attention to notice that, which you are primed to do because you’ve been told it’s a deep fake. You’re probably also more of an expert than most. But think of the general US electorate. How many of them, seeing this clip on the news as they prepare dinner, would know it’s fake?

>But think of the general US electorate. How many of them, seeing this clip on the news as they prepare dinner, would know it’s fake? I'm not convinced deepfakes will be that big of a problem because people already believe things that aren't real (and don't believe things that are real) without the help of technology.

But now people will also have more reason to disbelieve things that are true.

Imagine if Trump could claim that the "Grab em by the $#@%" tape was a fake, or if Biden could do the same about the tape of him bragging about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#36

Post by v8engine » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

scj wrote: post #16

jdminhbg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But think of the general US electorate. How many of them, seeing this clip on the news as they prepare dinner, would know it’s fake? The technology to fool someone who has the TV on in the background has existed forever. You could do it with a stunt double. The problem is fooling everyone such that "this video is faked" doesn't become a bigger story than the fake video in the first place.

Some people would demand fake videos supporting their point of view be taken seriously. Also, it isn't difficult to imagine a future where people are criticized for correctly identifying deep fakes.

  Also, it isn't difficult to imagine a future where people are criticized for correctly identifying deep fakes.

I didn't understand your scenario. Can you expand on that?

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#37

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #19

bem94 wrote: post #15

I find this as interesting as I do worrying. Given our tenuous grasp of shared facts and basis for (political) relality these days, making videos like this just seems irresponsible. We don't need any more fuel for the fire: "They faked this Nixon Video, so they could have faked too!"

Well, in this case, they would be correct. Finding a reliable way to exchange trusted information is a central problem of our time.

There's already an outbreak of "fakes" by the simple technique of misleading editing:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-ira-vi...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-release-anothe...

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#38

Post by roywiggins » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #33

hello_1234 wrote: post #5

The audio is so realistic. I could have been fooled easily.

And how do you know this video isn't real history and all the other Apollo videos aren't deep fakes? Answer seems obvious now, but once the generation that was alive during Apollo dies off, this is a likely conspiracy candidate that will take root in some skeptical future generation. We are increasingly living in an age of misinformation where it is becoming more difficult to tell what is true and what is not without…

Moon landing conspiracies have already formed a very robust community on YouTube.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#39

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

v8engine wrote: post #36

scj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people would demand fake videos supporting their point of view be taken seriously. Also, it isn't difficult to imagine a future where people are criticized for correctly identifying deep fakes.

Also, it isn't difficult to imagine a future where people are criticized for correctly identifying deep fakes. I didn't understand your scenario. Can you expand on that?

Saying "the Nixon video is fake" in a community of Nixon truthers will get you verbally attacked? It seems extremely likely.

Re: Deepfakes: MIT brings Nixon's Apollo disaster speech to life

#40

Post by sillysaurusx » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

hello_1234 wrote: post #5

The audio is so realistic. I could have been fooled easily.

I am more curious how they did the audio than the video. From experience, it's not nearly as easy to clone someone's voice as you might think.

It might be that they just found a good voice actor. That's what most deepfake videos do now. But maybe someday it will be possible to press a button and hear a beautiful result.