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Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

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Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#151
I once talked to a manager about how meeting seemed like a waste of time, he said he loved meetings because it meant people were working together and getting things done.

That made me think, that meetings were about making people feel that their work was meaningful when it wasn't. Basically, if you do meaningful work, you don't need meetings, but if its the other way around, meetings make total sense.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#152
But how can that be, when I actually find the meetings themselves to be absolutely traumatic and misery inducing.

I question what my life has come to. Why such a pointless spinning of my wheels must keep me separated from those I care about, and force me into contact with co-worker who I know for a fact will never love me?

This is torture, and the antithesis of therapy. It directly damages me, to persist in a tension inducing work environment.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#154

One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…

I've found that, with the exception of daily stand-ups, all meetings must have a bullet point agenda and notes should be sent out for each meeting with risks, action items, issues and ownership of those items. If both of those things are lacking, I doubt how useful the meeting will be or was.

Can you provide some examples? Need to push for changes like this myself.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#155
post #32

I call BS. Meetings make me lose the will to live & drove me to quitting my job multiple times. If you want to make sure I don''t do anything during the day, put in a meeting in the middle of it. Perhaps it helps people who have pointless jobs that create no value?

I call your BS call :) There is nothing better than a day with nicely spaced meetings My current Project on every second wednesday: 10:00-10:30 Daily Standup 11:00-12:00 Architect Jour Fix 12:00-12:30 Lunchbreak 13:00-14:00 Sprint Retro 15:00-16:00 Sprint Planning Most of the gaps have a reason (conflicting meetings, etc) We use those gaps to "transfer knowledge". That basically means we sit in the cafeteria chatting…

This is actually best practice from a Maker vs Manager perspective.

http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

Managers should group all dev meetings into one meeting day so that your devs can actually get their work done the rest of the week without interruptions. You can book all your manager to manager meetings on other days because as a manager the interruptions won't break your cadence.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#156
I have found that our daily standup calls are fairly therapeutic for those involved. Occasionally, a call will start with a very salty conversation regarding some topic from the prior day or concerns around schedules, but every single time it eventually evolves into a productive call. Sometimes this takes 20 seconds, sometimes this takes 20 minutes. I have a bad habit of trying to pre-empt or quench a salty exchange in progress, which usually escalates the situation further. I've found the best thing someone on the sidelines of a heated or otherwise pointless exchange can do is to come up with a completely different topic, or propose some sort of compromise. But, at the end of the day it can really help some people when you just let them yell it out for a few minutes on the phone. Doing this all the time is obviously not healthy for team dynamics, but there is always some happy medium between extremes.

One other thing that can help a lot is to have structured calls and ways for people to flag things for mandatory discussion. If I am on a call that starts going sideways, having some established process where I can say something like "Hey guys, can we take a look at ?" can very quickly right the ship. What this does is effectively remind everyone that we are here to do a job with certain degree of professionalism and diligence. Everyone also has a vested interest in getting to the bucket of review items, because these are usually the topics creating the most stress day-to-day, and talking through them with the team is an excellent means to relieve much of that stress.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#157

I once talked to a manager about how meeting seemed like a waste of time, he said he loved meetings because it meant people were working together and getting things done. That made me think, that meetings were about making people feel that their work was meaningful when it wasn't. Basically, if you do meaningful work, you don't need meetings, but if its the other way around, meetings make total sense.

The problem with that is it is very easy for someone to get a lot of work done in something useless. It is very easy to keep adding more and more features to product X not realizing the the product will never sell enough to make the investment in releasing it worth it: you would be just as useful to the company by taking a nap. Meetings are how you get everybody on the same page on these things. Of course if it is obvious the product won't pay off you send a memo to everyone. However more likely it is a combination of the marketing person doing some productions of sales, engineering projecting how much effort is left, and then someone senior deciding if we need to invest anyway because the loss leader is still worth it for other reasons...

None of this is to say you are wrong though.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#158

I call BS. Meetings make me lose the will to live & drove me to quitting my job multiple times. If you want to make sure I don''t do anything during the day, put in a meeting in the middle of it. Perhaps it helps people who have pointless jobs that create no value?

I learned long ago I only have about 30 hours of good code per week in my. So I need more than one hour of meetings every day just to make up the 40 hours I'm expected to be at work.

It helps to remember that I'm paid the same to attend a meeting as to do work.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#159
post #6

The problem I experience with meetings is that often times the information presented is only tangentially related to you. I hate it when I’m in a meeting and it ends up a conversation between two people. It’s stressful if you have an expectation to get something done but also an expectation to sit in a meeting you realize really doesn’t pertain to you.

Once upon a time, this was the point of circulating 'minutes' or a summary after meetings. Outside of some special cases (e.g. the Federal Reserve), they're specifically meant to reflect conclusions , not the full course of discussion. Back-and-forth that reaches an answer isn't needed, and a debate that ends unresolved would just read as a summary of the positions. That way, you can invite the people who need to spe…

Depends on the minutes. I've seen some where the entire minutes where things like "Heard the report from the director of X on the state of Y". I would like to know if the department in question is a useful use of my tax dollars, so I really want to know what the state of Y is, but I'll probably need to do a FOIA request to get it.

Re: Pointless work meetings 'really a form of therapy'

#160

One of my employers actively discouraged meetings and phone calls. They wanted everything done through Slack and email. It felt great at first. Having a wide-open calendar and knowing that random managers can’t pull you into a waste of time meeting seems like a dream come true. However, we quickly learned that removing meetings doesn’t removed the need for communication. Instead of scheduled meetings, our Slack chann…

The side effect of having all meetings on slack is that you get note taking for free and will always have the discussion and data points logged down and searchable forever. I find this to be extremely useful when looking back on decisions made and finding context on why they were made.
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