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Australia’s Darling River is running dry

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Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#151
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely make fresh water: desalination. You can do it with just electricity or heat, though reverse osmosis is more efficient. It's not even that expensive: all the water you can drink, for pennies a day.

Interesting that you think desalination is 'making' water. When I wash food I brought back from the grocery store did I just 'make' food?

Enormous amounts for people on the coasts. Should the people inland pay a premium on water just because they can't afford to live on the coast? I personally don't think so which is why a capitalism driven water supply is a terrible idea.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If market forces would make something which is already unsustainable untenable without subsidization, it is the subsidization that is the problem because it enables the unsustainable behaviour. In other words: let the cotton farmers get stuck with paying for the water, and the business will simply dry up, and the water will be used for economically sound purposes.

Sure. But since the word "subsidization" is in play, are we now talking about socialism? :-)

This is the fun thing. If person X thinks the fair price for something is $1, person Y thinks it’s $10, and the government has to set the price, both of them can yell “Socialism” at the other and never actually address anything.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#153
post #92
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be simply solved by selling water usage rights or incentivizing saving water wherever the river runs. This was done with success in some parts of the US.

Whilst this is a logical way forward, my point still stands that some will be big losers from this or any other sustainable policy.

From my perspective* the biggest challenge facing humanity currently isn't even the challenges themselves, it's the resistance to the growing pains associated with tackling these challenges.

It necessitates growth in the collective consciousness of humanity, similar to how addicts cannot give up their addictions without growing as people.

*edit

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying subject a fundamental basic need for human life and existence to capitalism? That's an absolutely terrifying proposition.

Water is already subject to capitalism, both in the sense that you literally pay money for it (more than industry does, note), and in the sense that wasteful and profligate use of it due to lack of appreciation of its value ( because its price is too low ) directly damages water security, putting this "fundamental basic need" at risk.

Water is not subject to capitalism. It's managed by policy, There's no profit motive.

It is not priced too low, it is priced so that EVERYONE has access to water.

Water security is not damaged. Government manages things better than capitalism does. For example the telecommunication monopolies..Capitalism can't get the INTERNET right and you want to apply that to water? Also see American the boondoggle healthcare system....

Resources having the properties of infinite demand but limited supply do not follow the normal rules of capitalism and should be regulated by policy instead.

Not everything fits into the rules of capitalism, and the fact that you believe it's the solution for our most precious resource is terrifying.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid your comment completely ignores the only point I made in my comment... TSI stands for total solar irradiance. This is the EMR spectrum I’m referring to. If you continue to read the report from the IPCC, you will notice there is no mention of energetic particle precipitation (EPP), or any particle forcing of any kind. So yes, the IPCC report is extraordinarily thorough and exactly perfect in everything that…

It indeed doesn't mention EPP. Is there any proof that EPP is significant? What about the other parts of the report? For example: >"It is extremely likely that human activities caused more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature from 1951 to 2010. This assessment is supported by robust evidence from multiple studies using different methods. In particular, the temperature trend attribu…

There is no direct evidence of specific amounts of temperature rise that can somehow magically be attributed to human activities (e.g., we are able to measure all energy values of every single thing on earth and then determine what causes what exactly, etc.). Nobody even claims that this is the case; certainly not the IPCC.

The conclusion (temperature-changing effects of human activities) is derived specifically from taking the local maxima of warming we’ve seen in this very short window, subtracting the known non-human factors (of which the sun is one... hence the importance of the missing data), and then attributing the rest to human activities.

In other words, your statements, pertaining how we can deduce that their conclusions are correct, save for A or B (above), are the most quintessential example of “begging the question”.

Another important bit that I didn’t even mention in my original comment is that, not only does looking at TSI ignore other particle forcing qualities of solar phenomenon, such as flares and sunspots, But it also ignores the fact that, during such events, solar irradiance is measurably decreased. This means that the assumed human factor needed to justify the perceived temperature increase in the models is actually raised in such cases. This means that when using the models to predict the temperature on the earth, the models will actually predict that human activities that cause warming increase during solar events.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being honest, there is a certain amount of privilege baked into this mindset. Not everyone is a software engineer with RSUs and a six-figure income. For many individuals and many communities, every dollar matters and increasing taxes to square off against a massive, but global and impersonal, existential threat is simply not something that everyone can get behind.

Really? You think this is about individual mindset? It's about governments and governments around the world. And about the future of our race and planet. Money should not stop us from tackling existential threats to everything we know and hold dear.

As much as I agree with your statement, the parent is arguing that climate change is a diffuse threat that's not immediately visible. Just like underfunding pensions will lead to possible issues later but we get money to spend now, or eating the seed corn instead of planting it.

It's not sustainable, but our political and economical systems are structured in such a way that we sacrifice long term sustainability for short term gains, such as getting reelected for a four year term or making the quarterly goals.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#157
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But since the word "subsidization" is in play, are we now talking about socialism? :-)

This is the fun thing. If person X thinks the fair price for something is $1, person Y thinks it’s $10, and the government has to set the price, both of them can yell “Socialism” at the other and never actually address anything.

I'm specifically referring to the Government giving money or forgiving taxes to business in order to help them. That is not "Capitalism".

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#159
post #4

Meanwhile we're still voting in governments that don't believe in climate change and which fight tooth and nail to destroy any chance of addressing the problem. No worries giving endless buckets of taxpayer money to climate-denying farmers and coal plants, though.

That will continue to happen as long as voting/politics remains ideology based rather than issue based.

Ideology determines how we view the world (and thus the issues) and what we want it to look like. Politics without ideology is impossible, there is no objective "null ideology".

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#160
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't use "believe" and "don't believe" terminology when we talk about scientific facts. It is more proper to say that people refuse to accept the climate change.

Even if you accept it, it does not mean you have much power to act on it. The largest emitters of CO2 in the world are by far India and China and Australia is a tiny country with a tiny footprint in comparison.

You can apply that argument to every person or group. I'm just one person, my individual carbon footprint is neglible – let the other 7 billion deal with it!
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