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Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

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Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#151

Post by buboard »

msbarnett wrote: post #132
buboard wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but , i mean they are free to call it free speech, and use it as a selling point. People judge the truth of that statement by their actions

> People judge the truth of that statement by their actions. Which is what I’m doing? I’m not clear what your issue is with me pointing out the inconsistency between their their new fluffy marketing and their actions, given what you just wrote.

no issue. i m all for letting people (and the market) judge them. But people are calling for regulation because apparently it 's too "free speech"

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#152

Post by doubleunplussed »

diego wrote: post #139
doubleunplussed wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a slogan people keep saying, and whilst it's useful fodder for one side of the debate, I'd encourage you to question it. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the concept of free speech outside of what is protected by the US constitution. That is what people are often talking about, and even though their legal recourse (in the US) is often limited to only preventing government censorship, we are fre…

No need for the patronizing, almost obnoxious tone. I mostly disagree with what you just said, and not for lack of questioning. Current laws or not, you’re not entitled to the attention of others, and I don’t think you should be. If you want attention, you need to earn it.

I don't disagree with you, but since the censorship and deplatforming people have been arguing about lately is the kind that prevents people from talking to willing audiences they have 'earned' already, that seems besides the point.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#153

Post by emmelaich »

firasd wrote: post #81
dredmorbius wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, China are literally a government. That said, I find weaknesses across the board with conventional arguments and talking points concerning speech. It really is complicated. And there is considerable previous thought, precedent, and philosophy that's been forgotten or ignored.

China is not threatening to arrest and try basketball players in the US. Their main threat is loss of financial income to the NBA.

They tried to get Morey sacked.

There's lot's of soft political pressure they can apply, well short of arresting anyone but not to be taken lightly.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#154

Post by thoughtstheseus »

shaki-dora wrote: post #148
thoughtstheseus wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, "free speech" protects it against lawsuits. See Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

No! No, No, no! This is the myth that won't die. Just actually read Sec 230! It says, explicitly and understandably, that moderating an online community does not create a liability for user-created content. You do not have to take a "hands off" attitude to avoid liability. That's the whole purpose of Sec 230. For people to continue getting this exactly wrong is absurd. Background: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/21/1…

I made no mention that Facebook cannot moderate its platform. You're right that categorizing it as user created content is more precise than saying free speech.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#155

Post by pseudalopex »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #147
mayama wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's a black box sometimes, people who tuned neural networks won't even understand what the NN is optimizing it for.

But on the other hand human brains are basically just black box neural networks as well.

You can just ask a human brain what it's optimizing for.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#156

Post by Porthos9K »

mindgam3 wrote: post #140

When making up one one's mind about whether Zuck is sincere in his passionate pleas for free speech, consider that: 1) he took no questions from reporters, only pre-moderated questions from students, and 2) Facebook Live chat was scrubbed of any critical comments by algorithmic filters. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ma...

[flagged]

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#157

Post by imglorp »

twic wrote: post #126
smileysteve wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinks of European orange juice commercials

Orange soft drink, albeit made with real fruit, rather than orange juice.

Yeah we have several levels of regulated claims around juice in the states too. Orange juice != orange drink != orange flavored beverage

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#158

Post by solveit »

pseudalopex wrote: post #155
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on the other hand human brains are basically just black box neural networks as well.

You can just ask a human brain what it's optimizing for.

"Senator, is the safety and prosperity of the American people your highest priority?"

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#159

Post by lisper »

earenndil wrote: post #143
lisper wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually makes a surprisingly interesting read. "Your firm's "Kraft Velveeta Pasteurized Process Cheese Spread" product is misbranded within the meaning of Section 403(g)( 1) of the Act in that it purports to be or is represented as a food, namely pasteurized process cheese spread..." So it's official: Velveeta is not food!

No, velveeta is not a specific named food--it's not the food which is named cheese.

Yes, I get it. But the way it's phrased is still pretty funny.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#160

Post by diego »

doubleunplussed wrote: post #152
diego wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for the patronizing, almost obnoxious tone. I mostly disagree with what you just said, and not for lack of questioning. Current laws or not, you’re not entitled to the attention of others, and I don’t think you should be. If you want attention, you need to earn it.

I don't disagree with you, but since the censorship and deplatforming people have been arguing about lately is the kind that prevents people from talking to willing audiences they have 'earned' already, that seems besides the point.

Censorship and deplatforming exist because companies have nothing to do with what was originally defined as free speech, and lots of us believe this is fine (including myself). If you want to take the phrase "free speech" and make it mean what you want it to mean, that's on you.
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