A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals • Hacker News Board

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#151

Post by jfengel » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

jccooper wrote: post #56

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I ca…

Cauliflower costs substantially more than flour, if I were to guess. The plant based patties are highly processed and much lower volume. Why would you expect these things to cost the same?

Possibly because ingredient costs are only a small part of a restaurant's expenses. Staff, rent, utilities, cleaning, etc. make up such a huge part that the food prices can be set primarily in terms of demand.

The price of inputs sets a floor on what they can charge, but even if a veggie patty cost twice as much as a beef patty, that would be $.30 rather than $.15. That doesn't justify a cost difference of $4 versus $3 in a fast food place, or $18 versus $15 in a sit-down restaurant.

Lots of issues come into play, but I suspect the biggest factor is simply that the restaurant owner believes that the vegetarians self-select to spend more. And they may well be right about it, at least for now. At one time, meats were seen as a luxury (as was dining out), and if vegetarian options become popular, meat eaters insisting on "real meat" may be the ones paying a premium.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#152

Post by tom_mellior » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #140

tom_mellior wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most importantly college kids tend not to have money But if that's a very important factor and vegetarian was cheapest, anyone strapped for cash would always have chosen the vegetarian option even before this experiment, so nothing would change. Also, from the actual abstract ( https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116 ): "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the…

You are assuming they would always chose the cheapest, not the best (by some criteria) they could afford. If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat, that might be too expensive for them, so they are forced onto the cheaper vegetarian options that they could avoid the day before.

> If suddently the sole meat option is more expensive than yesterdays cheaper meat

My understanding was that they went from three meat options to two, and I saw no indication in the abstract that they changed pricing (but I haven't read the paper), but yes, there are possible scenarios in which they were "forced" to eat non-meat.

More plausible, to me, is that most people who regularly eat meat are not that uptight about it, and willing to try other stuff without feeling victimized. But yes, I also know people who are the opposite.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#153

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #50

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure that would be flagged to death as low content snark. Also, it's possibly stupid saying anything at all because people who eat stuff like burgers and hot dogs will get all mad when you give your honest opinion that it isn't exactly gourmet health food. Tastes differ between people. I eat burgers and hotdogs because they're tasty, and their tastiness for me is inversely proportional to the amount of vegetabl…

I'm also quite curious, because palak paneer and other vegetarian indian dishes are awesome, veggies or not, and you didn't specify these sorts of options when you specify disliking vegetables in any form. If you hate tomatoes, does that mean you despise chili, or pasta? Are curries terrible? Is an apple pie better off with just shortbread?

> and you didn't specify these sorts of options when you specify disliking vegetables in any form

I haven't had a chance or inclination to eat much Indian food yet. I'm going to try, at some point.

> If you hate tomatoes, does that mean you despise chili, or pasta?

Not really. Here's the thing: it all depends on the processing, and usually the more processing was involved, the better I like the end result. So e.g. I don't like raw tomatoes, e.g. in a sandwich or on a pizza. But I do like tomato soup and tomato sauces, and I double-plus love ketchup (the commercial kind). Similarly for other kinds of vegetables and fruits. I like very few of them "standalone" - particular few kinds of apples, carrots, cucumbers and bananas. But for instance, I don't want to see any of the four anywhere near bread.

Maybe one day I'll try and note this down to see if I can find connections.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#154

Post by sudosteph » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #120

mr_overalls wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices. I see that you are unacquainted with Southern food, specifically Cajun cuisine. I cannot recommend a culinary expedition to New Orleans highly enough. It will change your life!

Stories I've heard of southern cuisine describe meat dishes with a side of more meat.

It's not all meat but it it's not healthy either. I can't speak to Cajun food, but fried okra, hushpuppies, and Cole slaw, are all important side dishes where I live. Fresh tomatoes or fried-green tomatoes too are good ones too.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#155

Post by ikornaselur » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #91

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

I just went full vegetarian at the start of the year and my biggest issue at first was I kept trying to find replacements for everything, which just wasn't the same. Some replacements were good, some were just awful, but I always compared it to the real thing.

After I started embracing just vegetarian/vegan dishes without them being replacements, I realised I had loads of things to discover and just treated this change as a way to explore new food. After I did that, I loved it, so I agree 100%, while I like some replacements, that shouldn't be the main focus.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#156

Post by benj111 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

bootlooped wrote: post #129

benj111 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The vegetarian things I eat, taste nice, and just happen to be vegetarian, they're not meat replaced with Quorn. Additionally, one thing I don't understand, up until recently animal rights seems to have been the main driver behind vegetarianism. If you're morally against eating pig, why would you want to eat something that pretends to be pig?

Because it tastes good. It's not a contradiction to enjoy the taste of an animal, while also believing that the harvesting of that animal is unethical.

As a non vegetarian, there's only one meat I don't eat for moral reasons, and I wouldn't want to eat anything that pretends to be that meat, regardless of whether I like the taste.

Quorn cubes, or Quorn mince I can understand, they're generic. Vegetarian bacon is supposed to be a specific part of a specific animal. And I've never heard anyone argue, vegetarian or otherwise, that vegetarian bacon tastes anything like actual bacon anyway.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#157

Post by geggam » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

boyotbh wrote: post #126

geggam wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind.

i'm not sure this argument holds up either - if you believed having sex is inherently cruel to the person you're having sex with, but you still enjoy sex, why is using a sex doll not a reasonable solution?

Seems like if you think an act is cruel to be honest to yourself you simply shouldn’t do it.

I would feel hypocritical were I to do this.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#158

Post by moate » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #146

moate wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your "Where is Europe" sentiment, but lists like this aren't super helpful. The fact that western site somehow doesn't have a single Asian city, despite veganism tracing it's roots to India, in their top 10 feels less like an objective analysis and more of a list of places the editors have visited.

I don’t think it’s fair to expect an English-language, western-focused website to cover India. I doubt the average Westerner could name more than a city or two in India to begin with. Even then, I am skeptical as to the claim that contemporary western veganism, as a cultural phenomenon, is traceable to India. I would attribute it more to developments in western ethics and growing awareness of the realities of the mea…

Let's ignore India specifically, and call out "the whole rest of the world that isn't the US, Western Europe, and Israel".

Why isn't it fair? You're saying "the best vegan cities in the world" and ignoring the vast majority of the world. Should I take this list as the definitive list of the objectively best vegan cities, or some westerner's take the subject? If you don't want to be judged on the world stage, don't bring the world into it. Say "the best vegan cities we've been to" or "the best vegan cities in europe/the US". They wrote a list, I'm critical of their list and process.

Here's a better list IMO, if you're trying to talk about the world. https://theveganword.com/vegan-friendly-cities-2018/

Also, you can talk about "contemporary western veganism" but that's very different from "veganism" in general. You're moving the goalposts sir.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#159

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

nfoz wrote: post #78

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #20

I always found vegan movement oddly close to religion. At my work, guy drives a car that has a custom VEGAN plate. I am not sure why I should know his dietary restrictions. I don't like liver. Do I add bumper indicating my dislike for liver consumption? Can someone rationalize it for me? Is it like sub-culture?

Veganism is often a moral/ethical stance rather than a dietary restriction. It's not a food preference, it's a worldview. So this can be an attempt to attract attention to the movement and normalize it.

Ok. That makes more sense to me now. Thank you for taking time to explain it. I was genuinely looking for information.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#160

Post by rwmurrayVT » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

deadmetheny wrote: post #135

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegetarian food can be delicious or disgusting, just as meat can be. I wouldn't salivate over sitting down to a dinner of boiled stew beef cubes without any seasoning at all... Which is pretty much the equivalent of boiled rice and broccoli. (Standard vegetarian fare at a lot of cafeterias in North America). I noticed something yesterday... Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I ca…

>Capitalistic enterprises really shit on vegetarians for some reason, and I can't quite figure out why. What? That's nonsense. You'd be a fool to have nothing suitable for vegetarians on your menu these days, there's quite a lot of them out and about anymore. >The local pizza place put a flyer in my mailbox... they have plant based pizza now with cauliflower based crusts... vegetarian peperoni and vegan cheese... two…

I'm convinced that abomination called "cheese" never melts.