Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#151

Post by waterside81 » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:36 PM UTC

wslh wrote: post #31

klenwell wrote: post #17

A friend of mine, a mother of a gifted 5th grader wrestling with similar issues of parental control as Amy Chua, shared the WSJ article with me today. It reminded me of something Steven Pinker writes about in one of his books. In his book, he breaks down the work of Judith Rich Harris ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Rich_Harris ) to this formula: Genes have 50% influence over a child's development, peers 40%-50…

It depends of the parents. László Polgár ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r ) trained all his daughters very well in chess.

I read about him in Talent is Overrated. Great book by the way, for any parents out there who want their child to be the next Tiger Woods or Mozart. Just make them do it from as young as age as possible.

http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class...

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#152

Post by kahawe » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:37 PM UTC

I am sorry, the WSJ article seemed like a lot of trolling to me. It never touched on the subject of why Chinese mothers are allegedly "superior" at bringing up "better" or "more successful" children (whatever that may be). Instead it took a long and round-about way of justifying why indeed Chinese mothers are "a superior" to their kids whom they seem to constantly boss around - with the best intentions.

I think Jean Hsu was spot on in her article, however: all this commanding and strict parenting just has to REALLY numb down the kid's initiative and will to "play" and "explore", try new things and learn on their own.

This may sound very harsh but for me, this bossing around just creates busy drones at best and at worst those kids will be very, very much lacking any orientation, motivation, initiative and a unique personality of sorts.

How can you find happiness on your own when the close bond with the person who has been controlling your life for 20, 25 years is suddenly gone?

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#153

Post by p_nathan » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:38 PM UTC

nocman wrote: post #102

p_nathan wrote: post #70

Regarding the WSJ essay - my perspective is that what Chua's kids are going through is barbaric and will not generate well-educated, Renaissance-esque people. There is tremendous value in learning and discipline, and my observation of American schools makes me think that American schools are pretty weaksauce in the discipline and focus department. I don't think anyone out there denies that. To pick at a particular ex…

I'd like to know more specifically the choice of acceptable instruments. My observation is that the choices of piano and violin are not limited to Asian families (at least, not in the US). There seems to be a link between people who wish to foster academic excellence in their children, and the choice to have them play piano and/or violin. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has any insights as to why those parti…

Piano has assorted benefits, sure. But I'm not convinced that it's worth making a major investment into unless you're focused on being a professional musician.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#154

Post by gawker » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:39 PM UTC

izendejas wrote: post #79

lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

To use your line of reasoning, let's take another anomaly: Steve Jobs. The dude was adopted, was a community college dropout and did a ton of drugs. He woke up one day at 42 and found himself back at the CEO position of the company he co-founded and now he's considered by many the most successful CEO of our time. His company has a market cap of $300 billion+ and has created a whole lot of other intangibles by surroun…

His management style isn't what something I would call liberal either. The success that he's achieved is based on control and demanding the best.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#155

Post by toblender » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:41 PM UTC

As an Engineer with a crazy controlling Chinese father. I know parents make a big difference in the early years. I've experienced not having attend sleep overs, any extracurricular/sports, friends over, or phone calls. Most prisoners have more freedom. My dad being a teacher back in China, ended up giving me hours of extra homework on top of the regular easy stuff from school.

Sure your kids may get into med school or become that lawyer, but I'm almost certain at some point they are going to hate you for ruining their childhood. Also they are just going to develop bingeing personalities and have overloads the moment you take your eyes off them.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#156

Post by toblender » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:45 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #111

jchonphoenix wrote: post #56

I'm not really sure whether to agree or disagree. I have asian parents and went through the whole ordeal. I can honestly say that, as a kid, I didn't enjoy it, but then again, I can't imagine anyone would. However, I definitely would not be as knowledgeable, intelligent, or well brought up without the asian schooling. This article and most people against asian parenting's viewpoint is from the outsiders viewpoint. Th…

> On the flipside however, it is undeniable that asians outperform westerners. Look around your office and name 5 things invented in the Asia.

Paper, ink, the compass, most of the food you eat is from china,and clothes you wear.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#157

Post by mbubb » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:50 PM UTC

mattmcknight wrote: post #143

sown wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised like this. My mom showed me no real love, nor did my family. I buckled under the pressure and when the time came for any real emotional support, they abandoned me in an attempt to get me to "try harder." I never forgave them and I don't talk to them any more. In the end, regardless of how they felt or their intentions, I was made out to be nothing more than an ornament, a product for the glory of the fam…

I don't think driving your children to excel is incompatible with showing them "real" love. Just because parents derive pride from their children's success doesn't mean that you are nothing more than "an ornament." How did they abandon you? I am personally disappointed in my parents because when I decided it was easier to just skate by in life as a teen, they let me get away with it. Things are sharper now, but I was…

Well expressed - had a similar experience growing up...

When you grow up learning to coast along it is hard to transition when you cant coast any more.

"Chinese mom" style helps with this. And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_gratification

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#158

Post by mbubb » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:54 PM UTC

sown wrote: post #78

lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

I was raised like this. My mom showed me no real love, nor did my family. I buckled under the pressure and when the time came for any real emotional support, they abandoned me in an attempt to get me to "try harder." I never forgave them and I don't talk to them any more. In the end, regardless of how they felt or their intentions, I was made out to be nothing more than an ornament, a product for the glory of the fam…

Reminds me of my wife's story. Talented as a young child and pushed by korean parents until she burned out by high school. It is not the pushing by itself but the pushing devoid of love - which is a different issue.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#159

Post by e40 » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:54 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #65

lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

Hate to say it, Sebastian, but this whole comment seems built on the back of a false dichotomy. You don't either berate your kids and force them to toil for years at something they hate OR they turn into listless, lifeless middle managers who just fart along. Plus, you're completely ignoring survivorship bias (in some cases literally): for every Andre Agassi, there are probably thousands of parents who told their kid…

I would add one:

  4. Hard work is more important than being smart.

The reason for this has been discussed a lot, but the jist is that telling kids they are smart causes them to feel like there is something wrong with them when they try new things and fail ("I'm smart, why can't I solve this??!"). Praising hard work has been shown to work better.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#160

Post by jtbigwoo » Tue, Jan 11, 2011, 3:56 PM UTC

nocman wrote: post #102

p_nathan wrote: post #70

Regarding the WSJ essay - my perspective is that what Chua's kids are going through is barbaric and will not generate well-educated, Renaissance-esque people. There is tremendous value in learning and discipline, and my observation of American schools makes me think that American schools are pretty weaksauce in the discipline and focus department. I don't think anyone out there denies that. To pick at a particular ex…

I'd like to know more specifically the choice of acceptable instruments. My observation is that the choices of piano and violin are not limited to Asian families (at least, not in the US). There seems to be a link between people who wish to foster academic excellence in their children, and the choice to have them play piano and/or violin. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has any insights as to why those parti…

The nice thing knowing how to play the violin, viola, or guitar is that you can carry them with you almost anywhere. The nice thing about knowing how to play the piano is there's a piano in every school, church, reception hall, etc.