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Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#151

Post by A2017U1 »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #130
astine wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their sense of loyalty and identity is the reason. People are hesitant to absorb information that questions their identity and they're even more hesitant when they feel that that identity is being threatened. Their sense of identity in this case is not just something random but something instilled in them since a young age by the Chinese government. They feel a loyalty to the Chinese government and so are willing to…

Agree here. In terms of cognitive dissonance, it cuts both ways, think about the systematic elimination of native american tribal lands, slavery, Jim Crow, the internment of Japanese citizens during WWII, etc. Everyone has their starting point, usually strongly associated with their cultural or familial identity. It takes a while for other info to filter through.

It very much cuts both ways.

We need far less nationalism in the world. It's never led to anything good.

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#152

Post by echaozh »

LiquidSky wrote: post #100
tepidandroid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's outrage-porn peddled as world news by the BCC, plain and simple. The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. There are videos of the incident readily available on Youtube [1] which show what exactly happened. There’s one group of HK/Australian pro-Hong Kong protestors on one side. There’s another group of Mainland students exercising their right to free speech by playing and sin…

>The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. Why? Not every story has two sides. Here one group used violence on another that didn't. Unless you have evidence that the pro-HK protesters actually used violence first, that's the only side to the story. The mainland faction being riled up doesn't excuse violence. Just because it's not a massive riot where the streets run red with blood…

If not every story has two sides, why do you need to bring every case to the court? Just execute the offenders on the wrong side of the story and get it done with, why the effort?

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#153

Post by jhanschoo »

coldtea wrote: post #149
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think Americans are going to hate their country after reading about MKUltra? One, we don’t censor that information. Two, I’d expect most Americans to freely criticise those government actions, as well as the people and agencies responsible. The latter is prohibited in China.

> One, we don’t censor that information You don't have to, when nobody really cares for it, and the system is such that nobody is gonna do anything about it (and the people who did those things get a slap on the wrist, if not a pat on the back). It's regimes that lack this that censor information -- regimes that are worried that e.g. protests could result in bringing them down. If you don't worry about that, you can…

The comment you are replying to is not making any judgment on the morality of the state, and is likely in agreement with you. It's just pointing out that the grandparent's rhetorical suggestion is undermined by an incorrect premise (that people don't know about US atrocities and their criticism and would be appalled to know them, where actually such information is easily available)

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#154

Post by jhanschoo »

rotred wrote: post #140
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m talking about why anybody would expect a Chinese student to change their attitude because of 6/4 I wouldn’t, but that’s because of something deeper than anything we experience in America or Australia. Consider pre-Snowden public opinions on mass surveillance. The public didn’t know and didn’t believe. Once the information came out, however, people believed. Some actions were taken, and on many fronts activism g…

> I wouldn’t, but that’s because of something deeper than anything we experience in America or Australia. I'm sick of this holier than thou attitude that people have here. There's this patronizing attitude that if only the brain washed Chinese knew what was really happening they would rise up! Yet you know about the Nayirah testimony, MKUltra, Snowden, Cambridge Analytica, migrant camps... why aren't you out protesti…

Trump isn't impeached simply because not enough representatives think that these are sufficiently severe atrocities to do so, and not enough people think that these are severe enough to undermine the state institutions.

You have legislators and media critical of the government wrt CA and migrant camps. That's why you don't see so much civil disobedience, because these concerns are visibly reflected in the government.

This doesn't mean I disagree with you that Chinese who know more about Tiananmen wouldn't "rise up", but against your argument that it is propaganda in the West that prevents people from civil disobedience.

I would agree that propaganda and soft power shape opinion and taboo in the West and US, but on the other hand, I don't think that this insidious and subtle propaganda is anywhere near as powerful as the total propaganda and coercion practiced by some other regimes.

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#155

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
SamReidHughes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Americans are going to hate their country after reading about MKUltra? How about solitary confinement? WMDs in Iraq?

> Do you think Americans are going to hate their country after reading about MKUltra? One, we don’t censor that information. Two, I’d expect most Americans to freely criticise those government actions, as well as the people and agencies responsible. The latter is prohibited in China.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#156

Post by dondawest »

A2017U1 wrote: post #151
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree here. In terms of cognitive dissonance, it cuts both ways, think about the systematic elimination of native american tribal lands, slavery, Jim Crow, the internment of Japanese citizens during WWII, etc. Everyone has their starting point, usually strongly associated with their cultural or familial identity. It takes a while for other info to filter through.

It very much cuts both ways. We need far less nationalism in the world. It's never led to anything good.

Didn’t it lead to ending slavery tho?

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#157

Post by seanmcdirmid »

socialist_coder wrote: post #147
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that I moved from China back to here to avoid stuff like that for my kid, and am disappointed that things have changed for the worse since I was a kid growing up in the same area. It is a “small thing” of course compared to comprehensive political education, but it is a thing and signals the start of a trend that could turn out to be dangerous (doubly so in this age of Trump-style ultra nationalism).

> it is a thing and signals the start of a trend Saying the pledge of allegiance in school has been around since I was a kid in the 80s though, and I'm fairly certain it's been this way since basically forever. So IMO it doesn't seem like it's the "start" of anything.

There was no pledge said at my schools in the 90s.

Re: Hong Kong protests: 'I'm in Australia but I feel censored by Chinese students'

#158

Post by spopejoy »

psychometry wrote: post #5

Haven't these pro-Beijing students ever tried to access uncensored information online that was denied to them until they arrived in their host countries? Why are they content to continue believe in the propaganda? You'd think that even a casual search for a subject like Tiananmen Square would be a wake-up call.

I would like to know how much of this is state-organized thuggery, typical of all authoritarian regimes. As in, directly fund, indoctrinate and direct initimidation and violence against anything that is seen as threatening to the state.
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