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Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

theguardian.com

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Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#151

I don't get what she's on about. that the guy who led Android received some millions? really? he should have received billions. larry page screwed him over by offering only 50m and he said himself he felt guilty. and all of this for an alleged assault that was never proved, only labelled credible after an internal investigation? feel bad for the guy, he developed the most popular os and is not a billionaire.

He kept every penny of his compensation for his role in Android, and is a third of the way to being a billionaire. The walkout was over a separate, additional $90 million he received just to resign.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#152
post #151

I don't get what she's on about. that the guy who led Android received some millions? really? he should have received billions. larry page screwed him over by offering only 50m and he said himself he felt guilty. and all of this for an alleged assault that was never proved, only labelled credible after an internal investigation? feel bad for the guy, he developed the most popular os and is not a billionaire.

He kept every penny of his compensation for his role in Android, and is a third of the way to being a billionaire. The walkout was over a separate, additional $90 million he received just to resign.

and you think 90m is enough? he got only 50m when google bought android. whatsup and ig got billions. I think he deserved much more. 90m is peanuts compared to what he did for google and how important is android for them.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#153
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope is an informal fallacy. Why not legislation? It’s THE way for organizing our society. Do you really think it’s a free market and meritocracy? No. There are laws that incentivize and offer protection for starting corporations. Our society is not built on objective principles but on what’s good for it. And it’s never lurched forward in ways that move the needle to the benefit of the masses without top do…

The people who work at Google who wanted to stage a walkout are free to leave for another job. They are free to start their own companies. We are free to use other products or create our own. How is legislation the best solution here? People need to stop with the excuses and the expectation that someone else will change the rules to fix their problem and be the change they want to see in the world. Google will eventu…

Get a non-techie android owner off Google, even for just a week. I dare you. No search, No Maps, No calendar, No search, No gmail, No YouTube, no drive, no docs.

Do you really think they can function? Even if they switch to Apple they still have to interface with calendar and gmail to function in society.

Can they even avoid sites hosted by Google?

You make it sound like it's all easy choices. "Just don't buy brand X."

These companies are so large and so ingrained the the web and modern society that they are unavoidable.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#154
Not too surprising. Organizations expect loyalty of their members, and particularly of their more senior members. Open protest, such as organizing a walkout, is an act of disloyalty, so it's not surprising that Claire suffered for what she did. She's lucky, I suppose, that she wasn't kicked out right after the walkout.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#155
post #153
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who work at Google who wanted to stage a walkout are free to leave for another job. They are free to start their own companies. We are free to use other products or create our own. How is legislation the best solution here? People need to stop with the excuses and the expectation that someone else will change the rules to fix their problem and be the change they want to see in the world. Google will eventu…

Get a non-techie android owner off Google, even for just a week. I dare you. No search, No Maps, No calendar, No search, No gmail, No YouTube, no drive, no docs. Do you really think they can function? Even if they switch to Apple they still have to interface with calendar and gmail to function in society. Can they even avoid sites hosted by Google? You make it sound like it's all easy choices. "Just don't buy brand X…

You’re right about non-techies switching from Android. They don’t like trying to switch. Many of them like the products. Many of them don’t care that Google is in the business of sucking up data because they place more value on the fact that the products work better for them as a result. There are plenty of people who don’t mind some highly targeted, unobtrusive ads because it’s better than the shitty banners and pop ups that used to be all over the place. Why are they supposed to switch? Because their nerd friend says Google is evil? This is like convincing someone to use Linux back in the day because Microsoft is bad.

To each their own I guess. We have more choices in technology than we’ve ever had. I haven’t used Google search in 10 years. It’s been longer since I used gmail. I used Android on and off and got rid of it permanently after downloading my google archive and seeing what’s in there. I watch videos on YouTube because there isn’t anything better. It’s not just a philosophical choice to avoid Google. That’s part of it but I think many of Google’s products are pretty lackluster as well. Search and gmail are the only ones that they really nailed. Both are phenomenal. The rest of them are mediocre defensive moves to protect the brand from a competitor, neat experiments that don’t become a must-have product, acquisitions or just another thing they’ll kill off. I used search and gmail until the the invasive tracking wasn’t worth it. I avoid Google web properties when I can. I know they still track me as much as they can. I make efforts to minimize the ability for someone to effectively build a profile and I make larger efforts to prevent them from successfully delivering targeting ads or converting.

If enough people stop using Google products, even if they can’t avoid indirectly touching something, Google will eventually want to figure out why and start making things that sell better. They don’t do what they do because they decided to be evil. They do it because it makes money. And people don’t continue to use it because they can’t switch. They use it because they like it or because they don’t have enough of a problem that they’re willing to switch. Instead, they bitch and moan a little bit and then go about their business. Maybe the more vocal ones are clamoring for regulation. That group is essentially saying they don’t like the way the product works even though they’re not the target market and we should make a law to change the product to their liking.

The reality is there is a a huge market where people are willing to trade information for product. I don’t like it but is it that bad that we need to break up companies? It’s put smartphones in places where they wouldn’t be otherwise. It’s connected people. It’s done more to level the playing field in terms of technical literacy and availability than anything anyone has ever done. There are homeless people who still have an android phone and everything that comes with it and that opens doors which would otherwise be shut. Would the world be a better or worse place if none of that came into existence?

We need to start with education. If the masses don’t understand it and the lawmakers don’t understand it we can’t exactly expect them to fix it. Apple is doing a little bit on this front with privacy-oriented products and requiring clear privacy policies from developers. I’d like to see more of this. If they truly differentiate themselves as the privacy (even at a premium) company then we’ve got a couple decent models to choose from. That’s really the key because more than the size or scope of these companies, it’s the homogenization of the industry that concerns me. But first, people need to understand enough about how it works that a company can effectively differentiate their product.

If there has to be legislation then I’d like to see something that requires more transparency of what is collected, how it’s used, give the individual some more control, etc. Something in the spirit of GDPR that isn’t such s shit show.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some experience with work councils in Germany and they have some significant downsides, including for employees, that we need to be honest about. Yes, employees get credible representation at the most senior levels of management, but that comes at a cost. My experience may not be universal but from what I gather it is representative. First, works councils are strongly biased toward the organizational status qu…

Sounds like your company wasn't familiar with how to handle a works council and treated it as an annoying necessary evil. AFAIU works councils are not supposed to be handled like that. They are supposed to be an integrated part of management, so them blocking something after a decision has been made just won't happen. If you do it that way, they won't like you. The usually decent working relationship between manageme…

This was at a large, established German company with German management. It wasn't as extreme as you are reading it but these dynamics did exist. Having large American offices working closely with the German ones made the impact of the works council on the operation of the company quite obvious because the Americans on a team were not subject to it (and there was a directive to operate "west coast style"). My other American friends that worked many years for German companies observed the same patterns.

I'm not saying works councils are bad per se, but they do have an effect on flexibility and execution speed that is significant enough that many Americans notice, especially in the western US where fast and flexible is the native mode of business (eastern US traditionally has a bit more rigid and European-like business culture).

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#157
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No politics talk at work seems to be the rational and only solution here.

That stance means everyone just has to abide by whatever invisible political ideology permeates the company. Most typically, that’s unfeeling “man in a gray suit” corporate capitalism. Where you work, who you work with, and what you do, it’s all political.

Beg to differ. The attitude came as a response to a typical corporate practice (here in the US) of your employer telling you who to vote for and taking the entire company to the polls to make sure you voted for that person.

This was the norm in the late 19th and early 20th century when we had party bosses. Parties/Candidates promised companies contracts, so your financial interest became your political interest.

You're lucky today that you can vote for whoever you damn well please.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#158
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope is an informal fallacy. Why not legislation? It’s THE way for organizing our society. Do you really think it’s a free market and meritocracy? No. There are laws that incentivize and offer protection for starting corporations. Our society is not built on objective principles but on what’s good for it. And it’s never lurched forward in ways that move the needle to the benefit of the masses without top do…

The people who work at Google who wanted to stage a walkout are free to leave for another job. They are free to start their own companies. We are free to use other products or create our own. How is legislation the best solution here? People need to stop with the excuses and the expectation that someone else will change the rules to fix their problem and be the change they want to see in the world. Google will eventu…

[dead]

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#159
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope is an informal fallacy. Why not legislation? It’s THE way for organizing our society. Do you really think it’s a free market and meritocracy? No. There are laws that incentivize and offer protection for starting corporations. Our society is not built on objective principles but on what’s good for it. And it’s never lurched forward in ways that move the needle to the benefit of the masses without top do…

The people who work at Google who wanted to stage a walkout are free to leave for another job. They are free to start their own companies. We are free to use other products or create our own. How is legislation the best solution here? People need to stop with the excuses and the expectation that someone else will change the rules to fix their problem and be the change they want to see in the world. Google will eventu…

Oh and another thing: why should I have to compete with Google by building a new search engine?

That’s just repeating the past.

This is what legislation should be fixing: burning down the tacit obligation to defer to entrenched management.

Market capture by powerful players ALWAYS... ALWAYS... leads to stagnant development of possibly better solutions.

We won’t do much to change CPU designs because Intel and Microsofts of the world would lose out. So we have to compete but that usually means hewing close to their discovery as the costs are too high to support a wholly new way.

So it becomes copy and slightly tweak to gain market share. Not actually make something novel.

And so we barely adapt and modify anything and society stagnates from lack of flexibility for novel ideas of depth. Preferring shallow novelty and tweaks in some misguided belief it shouldn’t be allowed to reinvent itself. No, it must simply compete against it’s tried and true. As if these fools at Google are village wise men we must kowtow to.

Sorry, but America is in the position it’s in because of sycophants to traditional economic theory folks like yourself have had their brains wired to believe in.

No one asks to be born and no one should be obliged to satisfy competitive goals of private power. To suggest we live in a culture with a fondness for a market of free ideas and then so willingly accept the only reasonable option is kowtow to acceptable norms is the sign of a very confused mind.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#160
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please not post unsubstantive comments here? You've done that repeatedly, and we ban accounts that do that repeatedly. Also, please don't use HN for ideological battle. Also, please eschew flamebait. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sure thing, but I don't see how this story can possibly be discussed without engaging in an ideological debate.

People use 'debate' to mean different things. What we want here: thoughtful conversation where people manage to hold space for the other side even when they strongly disagree. What we don't want: name-calling, fiery rhetoric, denunciation, shallow dismissals.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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