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Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#151

Post by gd1 »

mikekchar wrote: post #61
volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

Every time this pops up, I feel compelled to point out that in the 8 years I've lived in Japan (over a 10 year period), I haven't found this to be true. There is racism in Japan, just like everywhere. When I lived in Canada, I saw a sales manager where I was working throwing how CVs with Indian names. I asked him what he was doing. "There's no point in hiring someone whose name I can't even pronounce", was the reply.…

>In the UK I couldn't get on a bus without somebody complaining about how dark people were taking over the country.

I lived in London for 8 years and heard that not once.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#152

Post by pavlov »

burfog wrote: post #136
jpatokal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Japan's spiral of depopulation means they actually do need masses of people, and they're importing them too via all sorts of dodgy trainee visas etc to staff convenience stores, hotel front desks, construction sites, lettuce farms etc. It's just politically impossible to support permanent immigration for anybody but the 1%.

They don't need people. The GDP of Japan might benefit, but that doesn't mean benefit for typical Japanese people. Wages would be pushed down. There would be cultural conflict. Japan's unique culture would die. Japan is not in a permanent spiral of depopulation. There exist families who have plenty of children. These children will tend to do as their parents did. After a few generations of decline, the population wil…

Japanese culture in 2018 is completely different from the one in 1918, which was again completely different from the one in 1818.

Is the culture currently in an ideal state that needs to be frozen in time? Is immigration a greater threat to Japan than the past experiences of colonialism and nuclear war? If anything, immigration seems ridiculously manageable compared to those.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#153

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

hkmurakami wrote: post #107
the_new_guy29 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still closed for 99% of people who would like to immmigrate there. They only need highly skilled profesionals, not masses for cheap. Best part is Japan just doesn't care if other countries see it as racist nation - they still get going strong. And im 100% sure if anyone if going to find a solution to ever growing needs of capitalism without immigration it would be them.

At least for labor supply they have a huge untapped resource - women.

Based on what I read a while ago women are already adding to the workforce at a faster rate. I hope that doesn't become a trend though, the last thing we need is Western accepted norm of 2 working adults and nobody to take care of children.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#154

Post by aikinai »

jpatokal wrote: post #66
weiming wrote: post #22

The article doesn't mention, but Japan also took steps to make immigration easier for skilled workers with the Highly-Skilled Foreign Professional visa [1] based on this point system [2]. Can even qualify for permanent residency in as little as one year if you score 80+ points. [1] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/ [2] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet...

The problem is that the points requirements are too high for the type of young entrepreneurial people Japan wants to attract, and Japan itself is not attractive for the high rollers of the professional or scientific world that would qualify. In the 5+ years since it was rolled out, the number of successful applicants is less than 5000, most of whom were apparently Chinese nationals already in Japan. https://www.nippo…

One reason the number of applicants is so low is that the regular visas are also just fine (and still have some benefits over the highly-skilled ones), so a lot of people don't get them even if they qualify.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#155

Post by timr »

cdavid wrote: post #139
timr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the forms, it's the salary from the "principal accepting organization" that matters (i.e. the Japanese salary).

Which clause are you referring to ? When I applied to the visa last year, I had to justify my salary, at that time in the UK, with proof. Checking my application, I got 40 points for having > 10M JPY in the 35-40 year range.

Note 2 on this:

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_point_c...

"Checking my application, I got 40 points for having > 10M JPY in the 35-40 year range."

Were you paid that by a Japanese company? The clarification on Note 2 seems to imply that they'll consider any income from a Japanese company (i.e. in the case of transfers).

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#156

Post by coretx »

dang wrote: post #14
coretx wrote: post #3

So it seems not even a nuke can kill Japanese fascism.

Ideological and nationalistic flamewar aren't allowed here. We ban accounts that do this, so please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17274714 and marked it off-topic.

Noted. I should have known that my hyperbolic rhetoric would incite a undesired emotional response instead of a civil and rational discussion or debate. Flame-wars, and especially not offensive flame-wars are not my intent nor where they but I see why it appears as such thus please accept my apology for what it is worth. Also: Thank you for taking the effort to point it out and correct me.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#157

Post by sonnyblarney »

pheon wrote: post #62
victor106 wrote: post #41

Anyone here know how much a typical (I know its hard to qualify a 'typical' programmer) gets paid in Japan compared to the US?

Peanuts. Japans labor market structure is based on the army/military mode of operation. Imagine your skilled with a riffle because.. you like to shoot stuff out on the farm. Sign up for the army and you will be shipped to bootcamp where they teach you how to shoot "correctly", polish your shoes and make your bed and most importantly chain of command. Note: commanding office says jump, you say how high. You have your…

This is a really funny comment.

But it's entirely from an individualists perspective.

Maybe your 'shooting skill' at the end of the day is not as important as your life-long commitment to the cause?

You know the African proverb: "If you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go as a group"

Well, building a nation is 'going far' and can't be done on the basis of individuals all competing to out-do each other.

When it comes to 99% of things, surely some are a little better than others, some work harder than others, but really, 'we're all a commodity' in the long run. Even those who are spectacularly talented require legions of supporting people.

I'd also argue that they are not putting completely morons in charge, and that in the end, probably the better hands are getting promoted ultimately.

Also recognize that even the most nimble and entrepreneurial organizations are inherently pyramid-ish, and it gets really narrow at the top. There's not a lot of room for promotion - and that it might be considered selfish and bombastic to be demanding 'special recognition' for your efforts, if everyone is 'putting in effort'.

Consider that it (was) also a Japanese trait to not lay people off: this was shameful. Instead, your dignity was respected on some level, and you got to do a 'nothing job' all day at least to keep up appearances and keep your salary.

This is not so much an authoritarian structure as it is communitarian one.

Japan is a tiny island with few natural resources and yet somehow is one of the wealthiest and most advanced nations on earth, I suggest that these types of social structures are exactly why this is ... which comes at the cost of individual aspiration.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#158

Post by Semirhage »

icelancer wrote: post #90
Semirhage wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience of being a westerner in China is much worse than in Japan IME. I can’t speak for India or the continent of Africa, but in the latter case I’d guess that it varies widely by country.

I've enjoyed my time in China much more than Japan as a "westerner," and I'm Japanese-American.

I'm Japanese-American.

I suspect that’s the key right there. From friends who are the same, I get the impression that in Japan if you’re of Japanese descent the expectations had of you are very different than the typical gaikokujin.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#159

Post by bobthepanda »

pietroglyph wrote: post #76
bobthepanda wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in the West we generally do not use ethnicity or race as a criteria to deny people things as official policy. Affirmative action, for example, just makes it more likely for certain people to get picked out of a general qualifying pool, but it doesn't disqualify non-preferred people out of hand.

Even if it doesn't disqualify those people, it does disadvantage them individually .

The problem with not having affirmative action is that disadvantaged groups, even if on a level playing field on paper, have had their wealth actively destroyed while the advantaged groups have accumulated lots of it. The civil rights movement made people equal on paper, but nonwhites still had to deal with the shit hand they were dealt for generations. (And even legally advantaged groups have subgroups that have not done well, like Appalachian whites, but even so they were eligible for things like GI Bill benefits that nonwhites did not.)

Affirmative action is a clumsy policy to fix the legacy of such issues, but more targeted ones like substantially increasing education and social funding for disadvantaged groups, or reparations, are politically beyond the pale.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#160

Post by ShabbosGoy »

yorwba wrote: post #97
khallo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the issue is about "becoming" any of those nationalities you mentioned. You might not be considered Indian or Nigerian or Kuwaitian in those countries, but you sure as hell won't be ostracized or receive disapproving looks. That is speaking generally since every country has racist/xenophobic people. Blackface is quite common in Japan. Example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815 They have more…

Blackface isn't necessarily racist. Is the blackfaced actor used to make fun of black people? Probably racist. But that would also be the case if it were a black actor doing the same (it might just be more difficult to hire one for that). Is it used to create tension between the obviously fake costume and the effort put into pretending that it is real? Probably not racist. I can imagine a show deriving great hilarity…

> Blackface isn't necessarily racist.

I remember the controversy of blackface being used in Tropic Thunder. I think you’re right that the intention behind it matters.

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