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Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#151

This article is really confusing. Basically the point is that under the current terms of service they tell you that if you are outside of the US then you are doing business with their Ireland office. Since the Ireland office is in the EU, it is subject to the GDPR. So that means that everybody outside of the US will be covered by the GDPR (because they are doing business with an EU company). They are changing their t…

If you're one of the people that fancies exercising your rights to the max: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nightmare-letter-subject-acce...

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#152

This article is really confusing. Basically the point is that under the current terms of service they tell you that if you are outside of the US then you are doing business with their Ireland office. Since the Ireland office is in the EU, it is subject to the GDPR. So that means that everybody outside of the US will be covered by the GDPR (because they are doing business with an EU company). They are changing their t…

> If you just say, "Oh I have consent" then the user can withdraw consent. If you actually needed that information (like the user's name!) then you are absolutely screwed. Well, only screwed if they want to keep their account? I can assume that resulting in Facebook closing down your account. All in all, I doubt millions of people will request data under the GDPR. But I guess the fines are significant enough to worry…

The really, really, really awesome thing about GDPR is that you can't deny service because someone wants to opt out of sharing their data. You actually have to keep their account active and make it work somehow. If you can't, then you are libel for a really huge penalty. I can't add enough smileys to that, so you will just have to imagine them.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#153

> But the fact that the button to reject the new Terms of Service isn’t even a button, it’s a tiny “see your options” hyperlink, shows how badly Facebook wants to avoid you closing your account. > When Facebook’s product designer for the GDPR flow was asked if she thought this hyperlink was the best way to present the alternative to the big “I Accept” button, she disingenuously said yes, eliciting scoffs from the roo…

> Although I guess if I got paid really well I would end up justifying it to myself somehow.

There is the answer!

I am starting to see this attitude quite a lot lately - it is easy sitting on the sidelines thinking "Why are these people doing this?! Dont they have morals?! They should quit immediately or be ashamed of themselves! If people refused to implement this then we'd not have this problem!" And people comparing people working at these companies to Nazi prison guards is frankly offensive.

Couple of things to consider:

- Your moral values are not necessarily the same as their moral values.

- Even if they are the same values, it is not always so easy to just walk out of a job. If you are young, living in a cheap house-share, single with no real responsibilities, then sure, yeah walk out and feel good about yourself if you want - I am sure you can sell an iPad or two to keep you in noodles and rent until your next gig. But if you have responsibilities outside of work (perhaps family & kids, mortgage etc - and if you are in the US you have crippling/potentially-bankrupting medical insurance/bills to consider too) then quitting on a whim like this will not be so viable. Do not underestimate the physiological value of a well-paid, steady job that you generally find acceptable (e.g. comp, perks, hours, commute, opportunities, prestige etc) - I wager most people would find it difficult to "throw away" an otherwise decent job when it is all said and done.

- If you do quit on moral grounds, where is the line? Is what we're seeing here today with Facebook "the line", or is what we're seeing with Google & the military AI "the line" (both targeting of a different sense...), or what about the next Facebook outrage that is even bigger and even worse than this one? Do you hold your quitting "in-reserve" for the next bigger and more-outragey outrage? Perhaps you've gone too early this time? Or too late?

- If you do quit on moral grounds, will you do it again at your next company? How many times can you burn your bridges before you've run out of employers?

This all assumes that everyone that had a hand in this had perfect knowledge of "the big picture". Not everything is as black-and-white as it seems from the outside. This will have evolved and grown from thousands of individuals' contributions, bit-by-bit over time. Did every single one of those individuals know the "big picture"? I doubt it. Where do you draw the line on who did know and where responsibility lies? The execs giving the orders? The engineer designing the algorithm? The junior engs implementing it? How about the people maintaining the servers, or the person who drew the original "like" button, or the people serving food or cleaning toilets at Facebook HQ - are they complicit too since they are all critical roles to play in making facebook work? Should we be calling for the cooks at Facebook to quit too, since if they didn't agree to serve food at Facebook, they'd not be able to recruit any staff and we'd not have this problem! The cooks should be ashamed! Why dont they just quit! The cooks are as bad as the nazi prison guards, just following orders. Right? Right? Of course not. You cant blame the cooks for doing the job they were employed to do any more than the people employed to write code (and obviously it goes without saying that there is zero comparison to Nazis possible here - this is not genocide).

What you can blame is the advertising industry, the lack of regulation, and people's naivety for signing up to this sort of thing. Perhaps if we all just shopped less we'd not be in this mess.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#154
How do they manage the "no tax implications"?

If the Irish entity has a licence for the IP, and 70% of the value of their licence is transferred elsewhere, than how does this not realise that value to the Irish entity and not be taxable?

I am obviously not learned in this area, but the sleight of hand to move such a huge amount of value from one entity to another seems to me to create a huge tax liability now that the value would be leaving the tax domain.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#155
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR applies to people located within the EU, irrespective of citizenship. So it would protect a US national in Berlin, but not a German national in New York.

By people located you mean residents? Just to be more specific.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#156
post #88
post #13

Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…

All major tech companies are going to make the GDPR tools available globally for fear of accidentally misidentifying someone as not covered by the GDPR. Facebook will not be an exception regardless of what they are saying now.

Yup, I work at a firm where we care about GDPR a lot, and IMO it's wayyyyy easier to implement globally then to cordon off some subset of our users into a different codepath/databasee/workflow.

If FB actually leaves it like this, then they clearly believe that there's a lot more to be gained by not complying with GDPR

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#157

This article is really confusing. Basically the point is that under the current terms of service they tell you that if you are outside of the US then you are doing business with their Ireland office. Since the Ireland office is in the EU, it is subject to the GDPR. So that means that everybody outside of the US will be covered by the GDPR (because they are doing business with an EU company). They are changing their t…

I predict Max Schrems will continue his legal cases against Facebook. He has co-founded an NGO (NOYB) which has raised €330k in donations & membership fees to use the GDPR to protect privacy. https://noyb.eu/

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#158

This article is really confusing. Basically the point is that under the current terms of service they tell you that if you are outside of the US then you are doing business with their Ireland office. Since the Ireland office is in the EU, it is subject to the GDPR. So that means that everybody outside of the US will be covered by the GDPR (because they are doing business with an EU company). They are changing their t…

They have a lot of users and GDPR is really tricky to implement when dealing with any manual processes. Though they have a lot of users in the EU (population 700M), it seems that once they figure out how to do it for their 250M (?) EU users, expanding it to 2B users is not a huge stretch.

> population 700M

You are probably counting 'Europe the continent' rather then the EU (where the GDPR will come in effect) which is rather lower at 525 million or thereabouts.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#159
post #13

Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…

> that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]

The downside with trying to use dark patterns: The courts say "Nah that doesn't count. Ergo you don't have consent, ergo fine!"

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#160
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European governments are bound by GDPR in the same way companies are. Surely bringing a GDPR-like law to the US would be a good thing?

Data collection for security and intelligence purposes by governments is exempt from GDPR rules, I think.

And I think you haven't read through GDPR rules.
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