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Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

theguardian.com

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Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#151

Post by IshKebab »

d_theorist wrote: post #133

One thing I can't quite find a straight answer to: is there any suggestion that either FB or CA broke the law here? Note that I'm not saying that any of this is ok just because there was no illegality.

Unlikely, I've managed to work out what was happening (the news never really explains it - just a "data breach"). In the past if you gave it permission, a Facebook app could access information about your friends, e.g. their photos, name, gender, etc. I'm not sure exactly how much data.

Some sketchy apps harvested this data (which was against Facebook's terms and conditions for those apps). So the apps may have broken the law. I guess there is the question "should Facebook have protected the data better" but I doubt they broke the law exactly.

Anyway the stupid thing about this is that it was obvious that's what all these sketchy apps were doing at the time. Facebook app developers knew they could get this data, and the only thing stopping its exploitation was Facebook's app T&C's - i.e. "please don't do bad things".

There was even a setting to prevent third party apps accessing your data when given permission by friends. That's how obvious this issue was. (I doubt anyone used this option).

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/04/03/how-to-stop-your...

Facebook removed the friends API in 2014 so this is all about historical data "breaches".

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#152

Post by bbarn »

Attention everyone's smart friend or family member:

Now is not the time to scream "DUH!" or "I told you so!" to people who in the past have not grasped just what they were agreeing to. Now is the time to help your less tech-savvy friends understand the impact their data has in aggregate (like swaying elections!), and how they have been used by this system. Take advantage of all this bad press and help people you care about stop contributing to this machine. If ever you were going to get someone to stop using these services, these are the moments you capitalize on.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#153

Post by [deleted] »

nathan_long wrote: post #138
freyir wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and surprising for most users of Facebook Yeah, but let's be honest, they're dumb fu * * s.

No, they're not. Look, I'm a developer, I'm somewhat privacy-conscious, and I quit Facebook years ago because they're slimy. But "doesn't keep up with technology and privacy news" is not the same as "dumb". For any product as big as Facebook, there are people of all kinds using it, including many who are brilliant. Is it wise to trust Facebook with your data? No. But not having come to that conclusion doesn't make so…

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#154

Post by netsharc »

0942v8653 wrote: post #144
simias wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks about mass surveillance programs like PRISM. I think most technical people expected something like that to exist ever since the internet became mainstream. Still, if it's just an "educated rumor" without hard evidence there's not much for the media to talk about. Up until now you could only say "it seems pretty likely that Facebook is doing something like that, but we don't know for…

> Some of my friends willingly opt into streaming their position in real time continuously through their smartphones How do you avoid this? I have a GPS in my car with stored routing information, but if I need to navigate for someone else or get walking/biking directions, I am forced to do this. Printing out directions beforehand is something I did only a few years ago, but these days I don't always have a chance to…

I think he means his friends use location sharing apps, where you can actually tell people "Open this app/URL to see where I am right now.".

I remember installing a dating app one evening, and thinking "I'll look at it tomorrow.". Next evening, I opened and it said "This stranger and you were both at this subway station around noon!". Geezus Christ! I didn't even open the app the whole day! Uninstalled it straight away.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#155

Post by deltron3030 »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #112
deltron3030 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data protection laws are so strong in Germany that they let registration offices sell your data if you don't explicitly opt out. Most people don't even know whats going on and that they have to opt out to avoid that. Or German credit scoring institutions, who are allowed collect data about you even if you don't have any mutual agreement with them.

I agree with you that not everything is perfect in Germany with respect to data protection. Not even close. However, our data protection laws are uncontroversially stronger than elsewhere (specifically compared to the US), and I'm almost certain that the courts will find that Facebook violated them.

Maybe, but what sucks about Germany and the EU is the arbitrary nature of many laws, enabling them to selectively punish those who don't play their game. By not being able to define clear boundaries, you give them the power to rule over who can succeed and who not. Data is what fuels businesses in the end.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#156

Post by jakelazaroff »

faizshah wrote: post #118
jakelazaroff wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of my comment is that we should not compare Facebook to Equifax. The latter may have been lax in protecting that data, but the millions of records exposed last year were taken without their consent. Facebook is literally inviting anyone who can sign up for a developer account to harvest their — sorry, our — data at scale.

Right and I'm saying that the broader point is it's legal for these companies, Facebook and Equifax being two of the biggest, to have massive caches of highly invasive personal data and have 0 legal obligation to protect it (they can do anything they want with it). How invasive is it for a company like weatherbug to be selling your location data to the highest bidder simply because you want to check the weather on yo…

I agree with you with regard to WeatherBug, but Equifax already cannot just sell your credit data to the highest bidder. Whether there should be more restrictions on how that data can be used is up for debate, but for the most part you can't get a credit report on someone without their explicit consent.

I specifically want to avoid the Equifax comparison because it looms large in people's minds as an example of an intrusion and forceful removal of data, which is not what occurred with Facebook and Cambridge Analytica. We should have better laws around protecting sensitive data from intruders, too, but they won't be the same laws prohibiting companies from selling data they've collected on us. Conflating these problems will not help us solve them.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#157

Post by IshKebab »

anonymouz wrote: post #99
malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

As someone who considered himself reasonably well-informed about the privacy implications of Facebook, the "friend permission" was still news to me. That Facebook would share my profile data with a third party because some Facebook contact of mine "allowed" it, is utterly horrific. It is also a clear and massive breach of EU data privacy laws. (Which unfortunately seem difficult to enforce against international compa…

There were settings to disable it, but really they should have been private by default:

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/04/03/how-to-stop-your...

It was fairly well known at the time I thought.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#158

Post by ascagnel_ »

na85 wrote: post #41
arkh wrote: post #17

How the fuck could people be surprised? Open a software job board. 50% of offers are by companies trying to optimize some data harvesting and analysis to better target some ads. Ads, the direct child of propaganda. So to everyone working in those kind of companies: you're not better ethically than people working on missile software. I'd say you're worse because you can argue missiles can be used as deterrent.

I up voted because your point is relevant. However, Software development is not a Profession, in the proper use of the term. It is not self-regulating the way Medicine, Engineering, Law, and a few others are. There is no formal standard of ethical conduct in software for practitioners to use as a baseline for their own behaviour.

> There is no formal standard of ethical conduct in software for practitioners to use as a baseline for their own behaviour.

Such a baseline standard _must_ exist, and _must_ be created. Every applied technology has started out with dreams to "change the world", only to have those dreams shattered by those obsessed with power.

Biology? Biological weapons, nerve agents.

Chemistry? Mustard gas, TNT.

Physics? Nuclear weapons.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#159

Post by fancyfacebook »

malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

Yes, I think we are ready to grow out of the "arrogant jerk" phase of tech.

The tech wizards who build things and run these companies:

1. Are not smarter than you

2. Do not have your best interests in mind

3. Will lie to you repeatedly

4. Will do everything to avoid negative attention or consequences

Stop worshipping anyone. Not Jobs, not Zuckerberg, not Gates, not Musk, not anyone. They aren't on your team. I don't care if they look like you or represent something you are really passionate about, you still need to be skeptical.

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