Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

elaineou.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 307 posts

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#151

Post by ghostcluster »

mperham wrote: post #134
electrograv wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree with your premise that “the more voices the better” (i.e. the fewer voices that are silenced, the better). What you describe certainly covers much of what’s happening, but something else is happening too: Voices are being silenced. And to respond to your opening sentence, I don’t mean anyone is silenced physically (who does that?), but rather psychologically, culturally, and socially. That’s not a good t…

Let's be clear here. We're not talking about where to eat lunch or controversial scientific theories, a la Galileo or Darwin. We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Some have been comfortable espousing bigoted views. Now they are forced to think about what they say and how they say it. As a white man, this has affected my own behavior (for the better IMO): I'…

Evidence and scientific inquiry are not bigotry.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#152

Post by mikeash »

insickness wrote: post #43
electrograv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How does New York compare on this spectrum? I had the impression that the political atmosphere there is very similar to California. I loved New York City when I visited, so I’m very curious to learn more about it from this perspective. If you don’t feel safe talking about it publicly, feel free to email me (you can track it down via my account). I wish I didn’t have to say that last sentence, but thi…

In NYC, coming out as a Trump supporter is a cardinal sin that will lose you friends.

New Yorkers have been dealing with Trump’s bullshit for far longer than the rest of us.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#153

Post by strangecasts »

eksu wrote: post #71
lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Trump is literally putting the health of my country's citizens at risk for political posturing, I think animosity towards him is easily warranted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-g... Apparently, there's nothing better our tax dollars can be doing than destroying some of the most important and successful organizations human civilization has managed to create.

You are literally part of the phenomena described. This, "I'm right, you're wrong, this is the only lens to look at this through" positioning is really bad. In Policy Debate (CEDA, Cross-Examination) it's part of the sport to take mundane issues like creating a tax credit for electric vehicles and both teams try to extrapolate out to the worst possible impacts. Nuclear war, mass famine, extinction, etc. It seems to m…

But you shouldn't extend this animosity towards the people that support that candidate, and you shouldn't convince yourself that there aren't two sides to every issue, because there are.

That doesn't mean those sides are equal. Take anti-vaxxing and young-earth creationism: do they offer any truth or useful insights for policy proposals?

e: Another point: why should I not hold animosity towards hucksters who hamper efforts to slow climate change, or indirectly cause deaths from preventable diseases?

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#154

Post by calvinbhai »

If a white male (the google guy) can get fired for being open about his views, imagine how tough it can be for minorities to be open about their views!

It’s like everyone knows they are in an echo chamber but not daring to be the first one to speak up.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#155

Post by afpx »

rdtsc wrote: post #51
afpx wrote: post #24

If I had a nickel for every time someone told me that they were not allowed to say these things shortly after saying one or more of them ...

> If I had a nickel for every time someone told me that they were not allowed to say these things shortly after saying one or more of them ... You'll have a few dollars for sure. However you probably also won't hear from people who couldn't say it. Because well, they ... didn't say it. The idea I think is that those who mention it claim they speak for some larger group who couldn't. Don't know how true that is, but t…

You’re probably right to some degree, but remember that your argument is bi-directional.

(I’m sure someone can explain this better, but I’ll give it a shot.)

As a silly example, let’s say 85% of an area believes that carbonation is harmful to health. 10% are indifferent, and 5% believe that it’s good for health.

One carbonation lover happens to be bold enough to drink carbonated beverages in public. Many bystanders walk past thinking, “Wow - that guy is nuts. But, oh well, it’s his life.” One of the carbonation haters walks by and happens to be bold enough to challenge the guy and say, “Drinking carbonated beverages is stupid, man!”

The carbonation lover and hater then get into a visible argument. Naturally, a few more people get involved in the discussion. Ultimately, outnumbered, the carbonation lover goes home feeling misunderstood and defeated.

He meets up with a buddy of his at the carbonation lovers group, and they trade similar stories and conclude that the area is just intolerant of carbonation lovers. The next time, they decide to drink in public more defiantly and with some defensiveness. They start to wear T-shirt’s that say, “Carbonation is not a crime!”

What they missed is that for that one person out of 100 who challenged them in public, 84 walked by and didn’t.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#156

Post by mikeash »

freedomben wrote: post #95
jonathankoren wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole thing made a textbook hostile workplace. He said the people around him only got their jobs because of their race or gender and were therefore incompetent.

It's pretty clear you didn't actually read it. I didn't at first either because I trusted the sources I was reading to give me a fair summary. That was a mistake. I didn't necessarily agree with what he said, but it was nowhere near as bad as what 90% of sources were reporting.

I read it and I think it was just as bad as people said. It just happened to be stated in friendly, neutral-sounding language.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#157

Post by superquest »

dang wrote: post #141
superquest wrote: post #117

This post has 195 points in an hour, and it is currently #20 on the front page. Why isn't it higher?

For the usual reasons: user flags, software, and a moderation penalty. The latter can vary in weight but at the moment is a small downweight applied to follow-up discussions that don't contain significant new information. The software involved is HN's flamewar detector a.k.a. overheated discussion detector. All of these are typical responses to articles with a large heat-to-substance ratio.

Huh, ok. Thanks for quick answer.

Edit: Looks like you edited your answer to include flamewar info. That makes a ton of sense.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#158

Post by refurb »

nstart wrote: post #107
pretendscholar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>his financial support of legislative efforts to prohibit the same civil rights enjoyed by some in this country for other fellow Americans depending on their sexual preference. ...So his political views.

I find it troubling that views based deeply in religious beliefs (gay people are unnatural and somehow should be sidelined for their differences makes sense only inside of a highly religious context) or just pure unscientific opinion are somehow being taken as a political view. Back in the days, skin colour was a political view. That was a dumb idea. And the effects of that is still felt up to today. These days sexua…

Why not let ideas be judged on their own merit, rather than pre-judged and banned from conversation?

Everyone likes to use examples like racial differences as an example. How about something more gray? Should someone be able to voice opposition to immigration? Or is that another one of those ideas that "don't deserve a seat at the table"?

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#159

Post by pretendscholar »

jonathankoren wrote: post #130
pretendscholar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>his financial support of legislative efforts to prohibit the same civil rights enjoyed by some in this country for other fellow Americans depending on their sexual preference. ...So his political views.

Yes, his political views, which ran counter to the Foundation’s views. His actions hurt the brand and undermined the mission.

Right, which is fine but I just wanted the above comment to stop playing hide the ball. He was fired for his political views.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#160

Post by chasing »

cpitman wrote: post #140
chasing wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Voices are being silenced. I think we've got to be cautious in defining what "being silenced" means. Because I see a world in which people are saying all sorts of things out loud. There was a protest with a bunch of people waving Nazi flags in a public park in Virginia a few months ago. I don't think people are being silenced. I think community norms are shifting quickly in many parts of the country and, again, it'…

The White Nationalist march on Charlotte is actually an example of voices being silenced. Photos of people there were distributed, their names were found (sometimes incorrectly), and their places of work contacted. Then they were fired. If people see that people who share the same views are losing their livelihoods, they are more likely to be silent. Only the independently wealthy wouldn't consider losing their job r…

That's a good point to bring up.

I don't think those people were silenced.

They went to a public protest in a public place to make a statement. That statement was broadcast across the country and the world. The opposite of being silenced.

Now, they faced consequences for what they said. But that's what happens when you say things. Words have meaning and you can say words which will cause people to no longer want to associate with you.

Post reply on HN