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Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

elaineou.com

71–80 of 307 posts

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#71

Trump is literally putting the health of my country's citizens at risk for political posturing, I think animosity towards him is easily warranted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-g... Apparently, there's nothing better our tax dollars can be doing than destroying some of the most important and successful organizations human civilization has managed to create.

You are literally part of the phenomena described.

This, "I'm right, you're wrong, this is the only lens to look at this through" positioning is really bad.

In Policy Debate (CEDA, Cross-Examination) it's part of the sport to take mundane issues like creating a tax credit for electric vehicles and both teams try to extrapolate out to the worst possible impacts. Nuclear war, mass famine, extinction, etc.

It seems to me that we're adopting this quality for our public discourse, and that's a bad way to go. There is no 'discourse' in debate, that's an activity about winners and losers, not about truth seeking or implementing any real policy.

Sure, people can hold animosity toward Trump, just like most trump supporters hold animosity towards Secretary Clinton. But you shouldn't extend this animosity towards the people that support that candidate, and you shouldn't convince yourself that there aren't two sides to every issue, because there are.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#72

For better or worse, popular society has become a lot better at detecting dog whistles. "Diversity of thought is more important than diversity of skin color" is one of those dog whistles. I don't find the discussion itself objectionable, but I also don't want to grant intellectual capital to anybody who is going to use a controversial topic in bad faith to control the discussion. I don't want to be used to legitimize…

You think this is a dog whistle?

> “There can be 12 white, blue-eyed, blond men in a room and they’re going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation,” the inaugural diversity chief said.

> ”Diversity is the human experience,” she said, according to Quartz. “I get a little bit frustrated when diversity or the term diversity is tagged to the people of color, or the women, or the LGBT.”

This is what Denise Young Smith, 20 year HR veteran at Apple said. She 'resigned' and was replaced after the ensuing outrage.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#73

I mentioned it in the @sama thread earlier... but we're also missing Brendan Eich being canned for his views on gay marriage

Not his views, his financial support of legislative efforts to prohibit the same civil rights enjoyed by some in this country for other fellow Americans depending on their sexual preference. He lost the confidence of the internationally focused diverse organization he was charged with leading due to that financial support.

>his financial support of legislative efforts to prohibit the same civil rights enjoyed by some in this country for other fellow Americans depending on their sexual preference.

...So his political views.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#75
People cannot make decisions using facts; there are too many issues at play and the interactions between the facts are too complicated. In practice decisions are made by copying other socially successful persons.

It seems completely obvious to me that any social grouping will have some strongly held convictions that are not based on fact. A unique set of sacred cows that persist because it is orders of magnitude faster to copy successful examples than figure out why they were successful.

I mean, I applaud efforts to align cultural conversation with fact. Very worthwhile activity. But it seems more important to me to accept that social groups can behave erratically, and that nothing should be taking precedence over the rule of law; and anything that looks like mass hysteria should be resisted.

The enemy is the idea that 'everybody knows' something and therefore due process can be thrown out. I recall the slogan 'Not My President' being trotted out when Trump won. That sort of thing is dangerous. Disagreeing with the result of an election? That is fine. A bout half the population can do that. Chipping away at the legitimacy of the electoral process, because you can't say and do what Trump says and does? Huge threat.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#76
post #58

You can say any of those things in Silicon Valley. I mean, people might make some judgments about you. But that happens whenever you state any opinion, especially if it isn't the mainstream. I think a lot of people are used to saying what's on their mind without consequence. They're used to other types of people remaining quiet on certain topics -- especially topics related to race, gender, and sexuality. And that's…

> I think a lot of people are used to saying what's on their mind without consequence.

No, it's simpler still. What is happening is that conservatives feel awkward and nervous being a minority (irony much?), so they look to strawman arguments to make themselves feel better.

Obviously you can have those fights if you want. You just can't find many people to agree with you. This is like walking into a megachurch in Mississippi and complaining that no one wants to listen to your opinions on reproductive health care.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#77
post #59

That article is completely out of line. For the record: I think SF is doing a great job tackling homelessness, human excrement management, and broad daylight IV drug abuse. They just need to raise taxes to increase funding for all the really successful programs underway. I'm sure they've got a handle on it. It's a wonderful vacation destination for families. Affordable housing will definitely be solved by higher taxe…

Can't tell if this is serious

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#78
You can say all of these things anywhere with minimal actual consequences other than social consequences. You have to be so deep into first world problems that you can't see that social consequences are not the biggest problem for most Americans right now.

* You can support Trump, it doesn't mean other people don't have the right to think you're a moron, bigot, or supporter of fascism for doing so. You go right ahead and think the same thing about them. NO ONE ACTUALLY CARES. Most people are too busy working to get caught up in politics.

* Diversity of thought often comes with diversity of skin color because people with different skin color have a hell of a different experience than white people. They even have different experiences among their different ethnicities. Does it mean white people can't have different thoughts? No, but when you're in a bubble how would you even know?

* The way the H1-B is written now is terrible both to the H1-B holder and American workers. It forces workers to get paid below what they should get paid both as an H1-B worker and as the American worker. H1-B holders should not require sponsoring by a company. If their skills are in such high demand they should have no problem getting a job.

* If they could afford to sell. If they were stupid. Maybe they are optimists? Seems like San Fran has a ton of optimists. Maybe they plan on selling before sea levels rise or trust their government to bail them out.

* If this was all he said, sure, there's room for conversation about how and why we got into this situation, but it was a stupid screed against diversity. This guy is no champion of discourse. I doubt you could do what he did anywhere and have it go over well. You keep your politics out of your work whenever possible and speak your mind at home. A company is not a free speech zone.

* Equality of treatment doesn't mean equality of outcomes. That's a strawman argument.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#79

For better or worse, popular society has become a lot better at detecting dog whistles. "Diversity of thought is more important than diversity of skin color" is one of those dog whistles. I don't find the discussion itself objectionable, but I also don't want to grant intellectual capital to anybody who is going to use a controversial topic in bad faith to control the discussion. I don't want to be used to legitimize…

Well, that depends on what the goal is.

If you want to have a workforce representative of a given community, and the characteristics of that community are evaluated along ethnic or skin color, then diversity thereof is key.

If you want a workforce representative of people's economic status, then you evaluate on economic characteristics of the community.

IF you're looking for creativity then diversity in thought is paramount [however, that does not imply not guarantee diversity in any other human feature.]

The issue can become muddled due to a couple of reasons. Companies while looking to address ethnic diversity imbalance will imply that increasing ethnic diversity will coincidentally result in creative diversity [with the implication that greater creative diversity results in company success]. Their confounding of these things make things muddled.

If diversity of culture were necessary to succeed, then relative monocultures like China and Japan would never succeed.

Re: Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley

#80
post #58

You can say any of those things in Silicon Valley. I mean, people might make some judgments about you. But that happens whenever you state any opinion, especially if it isn't the mainstream. I think a lot of people are used to saying what's on their mind without consequence. They're used to other types of people remaining quiet on certain topics -- especially topics related to race, gender, and sexuality. And that's…

I 100% agree with your premise that “the more voices the better” (i.e. the fewer voices that are silenced, the better). What you describe certainly covers much of what’s happening, but something else is happening too: Voices are being silenced.

And to respond to your opening sentence, I don’t mean anyone is silenced physically (who does that?), but rather psychologically, culturally, and socially. That’s not a good thing.

Giving everyone a voice is good precisely because it facilitates debate, such that good ideas rise to the surface and bad ideas sink. Silencing voices opposed to your own views may serve you in the short term, but as a principle it’s incredibly dangerous and almost certainly harmful in the long run.

Edit: P.S. This doesn’t mean that bad ideas shouldn’t float down to a point where their advocation questions ones’ rational credibility, nor does it mean we should be entitled to say anything we want (no matter how extreme) without consequence.

For example, if you blurted out “The earth is flat - it’s all a conspiracy!”, most people would shake their heads in pity and keep walking away. But if someone presents evidence or ideas to a claim so extreme, the degree of our interest must be proportionate to the credibility of the evidence and the logical consistency of the argument — not the social stigma attached to the topic. This is a subtle distinction, but so important.

Social stigma can serve perhaps as a caching mechanism of consensus, but it is a tool we must wield with extreme caution.

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