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BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

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Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#151
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your linked argument is poorly formed. It's true that any system which periodically emits value will cause people to work towards achieving that value. However, it's not true that the work in question will necessarily be wasted in an arms race. Specifically, a (well constructed) Proof of Stake system will cause people to work to get a piece of the value by having them purchase the coin used for staking. This will cau…

How does proof of stake prevent double spending if there are no miners to validate blocks? I must be missing something here...

Not that I'm totally sold on it, or grok it fully, but from my rough understanding the very highest level (for Ethereum's Casper)...

The idea is that a double-spend attempt by a cartel of validators could be included in a new block as cryptographic proof to used take away their stake entirely ("slashing" it). Where a BTC miner would merely lose the cost of an attempted double spend block, and could keep mining more bad blocks; removing their stake completely is like burning down their rig.

In order to prevent that punishment, they'd have to control >2/3 of the staked coins on the network. Which means as long as total amount staked grows in value proportional to the network, this will be incredibly expensive. By adding rewards for staking, this further incentives long-term holders to stake part of their holdings, to secure the network.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact same conclusion Marx came to about labor.

Could you expand on this?

The value of a product is equivalent to the amount of labour exerceted in its production.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#153
post #97
post #94

There already is delegated prove of stake algorithms that solves the power consumption problem.

I have never understood what stops POS algorithms from being havens for opportunistic cheating. There is no punishment for spending energy on attacking the network unsuccessfully because you are still also playing good with the majority. In POW schemes you can only use your mining power on a single chain; in POS it seems like you can "stake" every competing chain simultaneously.

Ethereum's Casper uses the solution that while validator A could double-vote for multiple blocks, validator B could take those multiple vote messages, and submit them as cryptographic proof of A's dishonesty. By submitting such proof, the protocol would allow slashing A's stake, and giving some portion to B as a reward for catching them. Thus validators are strongly incentivized to only vote for one block at the end of the chain.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#154

Just the fact it's Bram Cohen behind this is enough to get me excited. Watching https://www.facebook.com/BerkeleyBlockchain/videos/200606982... I love when he talks about the off by one error in Bitcoin's difficulty reset calculation and how almost all other blockchains have mindlessly copied this :)

Hey, I was there at the event (I did the lightning talk at the beginning). Would love to answer any questions about Chia that anybody has, that I learned first-hand from Bram.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#155

I met Bram just last week (and had the honor to do a lightning talk before his Chia presentation !), and I want to clear up some things that people seem confused about: 1. Power consumption. Bram brought up a good point if we take Bitcoin to its ultimate extreme, that it will be people with access to nuclear energy (aka governments) that will take over mining bitcoin, since that is the cheapest route. This does not l…

Any opinion on Nem ?

Built from scratch, proof of importance, featureful (contracts, notary, supports currencies creation, fast..)

It’s well tested in the banking sector...

Chia announce sounds like : « hi, I’m another sh*tcoin with lots of big money from the crypto bubble »

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#156
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. If segwit use jumped to 100% (currently stands at ~10%) then the transaction rate capacity would roughly double.

Didn’t segwit result in a fork?

Yes (soft fork). But it already took place, so there is currently network capacity to double the tx rate without another fork (although it will likely take 1-2 years for Segwit use to approach 100%).

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#157
If you think video cards are more expensive due to Bitcoin, just wait and see hard drive prices skyrocket if this cryptocurrency gains popularity. It isn't exactly eco friendly because hard drive manufacturers will try to fill that demand by producing more drives that will end up empty.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#159

I understand the argument regarding power consumption. However, if we're going to green wash ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing ) a cryptocurrency, we need to focus on more than power consumption. Given that power is getting cheaper and cleaner through solar[1, 2], this is asking people to further accumulate more waste and precious metals in the form of fixed drives. This is not eco-friendly and it's dubiou…

When there are no more bitcoins to mine, will the power consumption drastically fall? There will be fees to mine, but I can't imagine everyone is going to be fighting that much on fees, but I don't really know..

No. They will flee to mining other crypto currencies. If all of this turns out to be e big Ponzi scheme or becomes illegal and just about everyone loses interest in mining crypto currencies, maybe then will power consumption fall.

Re: BitTorrent inventor announces eco-friendly Bitcoin competitor Chia

#160
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I watched Bram's talk in Berkeley two weeks ago. It indeed runs with much lower power costs. The cost is the power to do a hard-disk seek every long once in a while, rather than to compute sha256 over and over again. It does incentivize a buildup of physical disk drives. And if it becomes successful, it'll likely spur specialized datacenters and hardware (think specialized tape drives) to try to outcompete in sp…

So instead of just using energy we'll be wasting physical resources on making hard drives? Doesn't sound eco-friendly to me. It does sound like a good way to drive up costs for the NSA to store everyone's data. That's a really clever way to fight mass surveillance.

The NSA gets their money from the taxpayer so you're only looking at more taxes to sustain they're storage costs.

We'll also waste money to power empty hard drives.

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