ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#151

Post by Bud » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #131

Bud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're leaving out the fact that most of these players never get to the NFL, and they have a very high risk of brain injury, but they get paid $0.00, even though their work is generating billions for the NCAA, for ESPN, for basically every large university in the country, etc. College football players need to be paid fair market value.

Hell-- high school players need to be paid fair market value. Which, in many parts of the country, is not a trivial amount.

A high school in Texas just built a $72 million football stadium.

That's right. A fucking high school stadium.

http://www.wacotrib.com/sports/high_schools/central_texas_fo...

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#152

Post by lamp_book » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

People always point to rugby when this topic comes up, but there is no conclusive evidence that it is any safer. In fact, this study found that the risk of concussion in rugby was far higher (4.13 concussions per 1,000 athletic exposure hours vs 0.53 for American football) by pooling data from 13 previous studies: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-concussion-youth-sp...

Of course there are always flaws, limitations, and contradictory evidence in these studies, but at least it is more worthwile than the eyeball test.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#153

Post by eropple » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

le-mark wrote: post #145

eropple wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say "many" Valley developers make more than $465,000 (rookie minimum) and I definitely wouldn't say that "many" Valley developers make more than $775,000 (a four-year veteran minimum). However, the earning potential certainly is stretched out. Practice squad, players, however, make about $120,000 per season, which is certainly in the ballpark.

Oops, I should've verified, last I remember the league minimum was on the order of $250k. Apologies!

No worries--I mean, the point you're making remains valid.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#154

Post by Jeremy1026 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #121

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard arguments that fights in hockey reduce the overall level of violence through changing incentives. Basically, it means that rough play will get you punched, so people are less willing to futz around on the ice.

I've heard that before - like the reason that Crosby spends so much time laid out is that the Pens refused to use an enforcer to punish the guys who were roughing him up. That, to me, sounds like anarchy on the ice. Like the game is either impossible to properly referee or the referees are incompetent or the refs simply have been told to ignore a certain level of violence.

Hockey is a contact sport, and because of that the referees can't issue a penalty everytime someone gets hit. There are hits that are illegal, and they are called (most of the time). Hits where the principle contact point is the head is illegal, hits directly from behind are illegal, and hits where the hitter takes more than two strides into the hit are illegal. Anything else is fair game and because of that, the puck carrier needs to keep their head up and be proactive to the play.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#155

Post by Rapzid » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:17 PM UTC

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

I never really followed it but could enjoy a game every now and then. Now I have a distaste for it.

My biggest issue by far is how embedded football is into our public school system. They are essentially feeder leagues for the NFL that the public pays to operate. We glorify the sport to little kids and then shove them into the head trauma pipeline.

We should absolutely not be a party to that at the public level. I'm aware of the issues with drawing a line on dangerous sports, but I'm sure something a ton of people can agree on is that wherever the line ends up, football is on the wrong side of it. It's position is relative to the line.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#156

Post by mcguire » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:17 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #5

Football is America's gladiator sport. For all the fun, the money, the excitement, the money, the drama, the bombast, the cheerleaders, and even the money, we should remind ourselves that American football is a very violent sport rife with injury and long term disability, and our participation as passive spectators and consumers makes us just as responsible for the incentive structure that harms so many young men for…

On my more cynical days, I think it's a net positive. It occupies a group of people who would otherwise likely be very effective street criminals. It entertains millions who would probably find something worse to enjoy.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#157

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

I'm a Swede who grew up loving European hockey. NHL Hockey bores me.

You can think of the difference either as physical or mental.

Physical: The European rink is 100 feet wide while the NHL rink is 85 feet. This gives a lot more space to skate around people rather than through them, more space and time for a passing and placement game, more time for smart play over brute force play.

Mental: Each continent plays hockey as it plays "football". That is soccer vs NFL mentality.

My whining aside, in reality the two hockey cultures have grown closer. NHL teams no longer have full time enforcers, and play is much cleaner, while European hockey has become more "physical", as the goal of everyone is to become an NHL millionaire.

Still, whenever I try to swallow my pride and watch some hockey I get bored. Unless Pavel Datsyuk is playing!

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#158

Post by alistproducer2 » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:19 PM UTC

I'm in my second year of not watching/supporting the NFL for just this reason. Add the that the treatment of Colin Kaepernick and I'm not sure I'll look back. I'd be lying if I said I won't watch the super bowl, but my days of watching endless hours and going to games are likely over unless and until they make the players take off that ridiculous armor.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#159

Post by kendallpark » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

It's become increasingly popular to dismiss football as this barbaric, gladiatorial sport. Maybe it is. But it's a damn fun one.

The problem with football is that people love football. Not just watching football, but playing football. I played for seven years, had three surgeries, and no doubt dropped some IQ points rattling my skull on the line. If I could go back in time, I'd do it all over again.

We need to do something to save this sport. I don't really care if the NFL dies or if the NCAA loses its cash cow. I don't care about losing football as entertainment. I want my kids to also have the opportunity to play the sport I love and I want it to be safer for them.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#160

Post by lancewiggs » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #41

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

Another reason rugby tackles are different: The goal is to stop the player. The difference between one meter and another is minimal. In football, inches matter for the downs. So the hits are blowouts to stop people as soon as possible.

There are many many more tackles in rugby and the repeated inches do matter. Great defensive teams like the All Blacks fight for every inch.