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Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

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Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#151
Critical side note, from a tax perspective: Be very careful with the suggestions to have the stock bought back by the company for a 10% or 20% discount off the price in the round.

I assume your 5% stake is common stock. The common stock valuation will not be 10% or 20% less than the preferred price in the round. It'll be more like a 75% discount.

What this means is that even if you have long term capital gains on the appreciation of the stock, that tax rate will (at best) only apply to the delta between the common stock valuation at the time of repurchase and the price at which you bought the stock.

The delta between the common stock valuation at repurchase and the price at which the shares are actually repurchased will be treated, for tax purposes, as an employee bonus. So, it will be taxed like employment income.

Just want you to be aware of what you're potentially getting into, from a tax perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#153
Valuation and percentage aside, let me ask you this question -- now that the company is raising another round, where do you think the equity for the new investors is going to come from?

Say the company is trying to take on another 20mil at 100mil valuation, that's 20% of the company that will have to come out from the current shares, i.e. dilute all the current owners of the shares. That means to raise that money right now, the company is going to have to dilute you, but also all other employees and founders and investors. So you will lose ~20% of your shares, in exchange for XX-growth of the paper value of your shares.

Imagine that right now your shares are worth 1 million, but for absolutely no cost to you, those same shares will be worth 20 million tomorrow (minus the 20% that investors end up taking). This is not "exact" math, but it illustrates the point.

You can sit on your shares today, and make a ton of money overnight by doing _nothing_.

If you sell your shares today, for any amount less than what you would get in the above scenario, you're losing money. The hardball-CEO is just going to take your shares, and immediately resell them to new investors at 100X the price.

Unless you absolutely need the 100k today and can't live without it, your best bet is to hold on to the shares and take the gamble on them growing multiples. If the company does great, you win. If the company shuts down, all you lose is x-months worth of salary equivalent. If the company needs to raise more money later, then you can always offer to sell your shares at the later price.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#154

Valuation and percentage aside, let me ask you this question -- now that the company is raising another round, where do you think the equity for the new investors is going to come from? Say the company is trying to take on another 20mil at 100mil valuation, that's 20% of the company that will have to come out from the current shares, i.e. dilute all the current owners of the shares. That means to raise that money rig…

If someone came to you and demanded your house for a small price of $20 dollars, would you yield and sell?

In the same way, the hardball CEO can offer whatever she wants, but in this case the ball is completely in your court. You can ask for 10 million, if you want, or a 100.

An ass-hat CEO could technically issue a billion shares to herself and new investors and completely dilute your value in the company, as a last resort.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it makes an investor happy, because they received a 10% discount. Also, although it doesn't help the other founders that much, if one investor sells stock to another investor, it also doesn't HARM them at all. Why should they care if two investors trade shares between each other? If you own 5%, thats what you are. An investor.

Investors are happy with a 10% discount from preferred when buying common shares with no liquidation preferences?

Not every company has onerous terms.

But you could still factor that in to whatever the fair market value is.

Call it a 50% discount if you like, to get to the "market value". But that still sounds like a much much better deal than what the CEO is offering

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investors are happy with a 10% discount from preferred when buying common shares with no liquidation preferences?

Not every company has onerous terms. But you could still factor that in to whatever the fair market value is. Call it a 50% discount if you like, to get to the "market value". But that still sounds like a much much better deal than what the CEO is offering

Even a 1X liquidation preference knocks a lot off, and that's hardly onerous.

There's a reason why the 409a value is often only 10%.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#157
You own 5% of the company that is about to be bought for an amount that makes your stake worth $500k minimum. I was in a similar situation once. My mentor at the time told me, "If you have them by the short hairs, pull." We countered for 10x their offer and settled for half of that.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#158
If your 5% at the new valuation is worth a lot more than $100K, I would say don't do it unless you need the money in the near term.

For example, if XX is 10, 5% of $10 million is $500K.

If you do need the money, maybe you should make a counter offer that is a better deal for you.

And don't forget you have to pay income tax this year if you do sell. If you wait, obviously you also delay the tax.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#159
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100k is life changing money for most people.

Not for most people here, though. Do we really need to keep saying stuff like this every time anyone here mentions money? "$10 is a weeks worth of food for people in Africa, you know". $100k is a lot of money, no question. But it's only about 1-year's salary for a decently paid programmer. It's not enough to quit your job, and it's not even enough to buy a house in most major tech cities. Which is what the OP said "w…

  Not for most people here, though
I doubt you have any data to back that 'most' up. There are a lot of people reading here and many of them are not like yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Ex-Founder. Should I take lowball buyout offer?

#160
First and foremost and to re-iterate what many HNers has already said: you are NOT in any way obligated to sell. That said, it is in your best interest to be pragmatic and get the most out of your equity (financial + emotional).

Let the hardball CEO (imo he/she is doing his/her job) know that you are open to finding a mutually beneficial agreement, but you feel the initial offer is not something that entices you to sell. Ask for the term sheet of the funding round, because you need to know what will happen to your 5% stake to evaluate your options.

I recommend viewing this as a business decision/transaction.

Step 1 is to speak to a lawyer and accountant. Get their take on what your equity is worth, the tax implications, and evaluate the impact of the term sheet on your equity if you have it.

Step 2 is to make a decision. How much equity do you want to sell? All, some? For how much? And what are the numbers behind your decision? How much of a discount are you willing to accept? If you want to sell all your stakes, the lawyer/accountant should be able to give you a valuation.

Step 3 is to negotiate. You can do this through your lawyer if you want to avoid mixing business with personal relationships. Work with the CEO if you can, because if you decide to keep some equity, it is also in your best interest that the company completes the funding round successfully.

Step 4 .. Profit!

Disclaimer: I have absolutely no prior experience with this kind of event whatsoever. :)

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