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Swift is like Kotlin

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Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#151

Post by kpobococ »

techno_modus wrote: post #134
kozak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the name "Kiev" would be no less offensive becuase this spelling of the name implies that this is a Russian city, not a Ukrainian one. The official and correct spelling is "Kyiv", see http://kyiv.of-cour.se/ for explanations why.

> The official and correct spelling … I think "official" and "correct" are two different things especially in countries where social networks and other internet services are prohibited like Ukraine.

Social networks, as a whole, aren't prohibited in Ukraine. Only a couple russian internet services are blocked as part of sanctions against Russia. Because of the... you know... war.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#152

Post by 3chelon »

Jach wrote: post #148
3chelon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but is there a line? Where does it get drawn? Without explicitly naming them, once you get into the realm of Stalinism or the holocaust, surely it wouldn't take too much imagination to come up with a few names too unsavoury even for you?

I don't see a line. Though if there's an element of humor I see an orthogonal anti-line that will annihilate any attempts at line-drawing. I'm sure you could find a name that if not met with indifference or a laugh would elicit from me an eyeroll or a statement like "come on, that's dumb" or maybe "that's just asking to derail conversations" but I don't think you could 'trigger' me into a fit. (Of course you're welco…

Point taken, but the original point was being associated with the name, not throwing a fit. Having it on your CV/resume, for example. Potentially alienating clients because of words that stand out from the page in the wrong context. I can see a problem.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#153

Post by ptx »

zem wrote: post #14
cpfohl wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you like about it? I was actually thinking the opposite... EDIT: Genuinely curious, this is not meant to troll or start a war. I like the more explicit feeling `count-1`. I'd use either...

it's always confusing, in languages with ranges, whether the range includes the second boundary element or not. it's purely a matter of convention, after all. ruby has a..b and a...b, but even after years of using the language i have to look up which is which. a.. perfect notation - once you know the language handles both cases, a.. as for the "count - 1", it's not too bad because i find "inclusive" more intuitive th…

"a..b - 1" can also be written as "a until b" in Kotlin.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#154

Post by egeozcan »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #144
AsyncAwait wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This sounds really stupid, considering that many Ukrainian programmers are already using JetBrains products and that punishing a great company for the actions of politicians is kind of sad.

Would you work in a programming language called Hitler? Any multinational company needs to do their research before deciding on a name.

Hitler is universally offending and I would question the motives of its creators. OTOH, I couldn't care less if a language would be called gomix or ibne (same word in Turkish) or fag.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#155

Post by [deleted] »

Tanegashima wrote: post #121
coldtea wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has a top-notch IDE from a top-notch IDE vendor. The other has XCode. Also, ARC aside, for the 3-4 items you mentioned, either Kotlin also also has them, or has just as good alternatives. And none of those are life-changing. ARC vs a good GC is just a different tradeoff (no cycle detection vs pauses, etc). I'm sure you can find some things where Swift is better at, and others where Kotlin is. But not that many to…

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

[deleted]

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#156

Post by [deleted] »

techno_modus wrote: post #132
kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language ... just for curiosity, do you still have access to Internet and https://github.com/jetbrains/kotlin ? I have heard that social networks and many other services in Ukraine are prohibited by the government (after prohibiting other media like TV and newspaper) and now people are installing VPN and other tools by using experience of China…

[deleted]

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#157

Post by breeze_em_out »

3chelon wrote: post #138
Jach wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple heuristic: if a developer has a hissy fit over the project names of Coq, Brainfuck, or Stalin, don't work with them.

Ah, but is there a line? Where does it get drawn? Without explicitly naming them, once you get into the realm of Stalinism or the holocaust, surely it wouldn't take too much imagination to come up with a few names too unsavoury even for you?

There is no line. Expression is turing complete. That you might not like something I say does not have any effect on my right to say it as a human being.

Obviously the names are tongue in cheek jabs. There's no language called Auschwitz, afaik, and even if there was, it would have as much right to exist as Java or Python or whatever.

You don't get to tell people what to name things just because you're offended. You get to be offended, that's it.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#158

Post by kozak »

kpobococ wrote: post #150
techno_modus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language ... just for curiosity, do you still have access to Internet and https://github.com/jetbrains/kotlin ? I have heard that social networks and many other services in Ukraine are prohibited by the government (after prohibiting other media like TV and newspaper) and now people are installing VPN and other tools by using experience of China…

Ukrainian here. Where did you hear that? Don't read news there anymore, they manipulate you. Ukraine introduced sanctions against russian businesses on its territory. As part of those sanctions, websites of three major russian IT companies have been blocked. That included Yandex (which is very similar to google, also has a lot of web services), and a couple of russian social networks.

I can say the same. Those services that were banned are either the most outrageous war propaganda outlets, or honeypots that gather intelligence information (imagine half of all Ukrainians communicating via a social network that is fully controlled by the enemy).

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#159

Post by wruza »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

Can we please not raise topics like this here?

In fact, ukrainians don't give a damn about few nationalists like this for whom it "hurts" and will never consider an origin of the language name, not to mention that idiotic [island name - country name - evil status] associativity. Most people in the world are sane, please don't get tricked into internet-bs easily.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#160

Post by martijn_himself »

Does anyone else think the Kotlin syntax for array literals is super ugly:

val shoppingList = arrayOf("catfish", "water", "tulips", "blue paint")

What is wrong with square bracket syntax? (rant over).

EDIT: I suppose it's consistent with other syntax e.g. listOf() etc.

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