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Swift is like Kotlin

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Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#131

Post by mstade »

quonn wrote: post #105
kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia when dealing with Java programmers either.

At first I read this as "Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia" and found it quite offensive on multiple levels. Somehow, my mind just stopped processing input! Thankfully I reread your statement, but boy do I need caffeine – clearly!

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#132

Post by techno_modus »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language ...

just for curiosity, do you still have access to Internet and https://github.com/jetbrains/kotlin? I have heard that social networks and many other services in Ukraine are prohibited by the government (after prohibiting other media like TV and newspaper) and now people are installing VPN and other tools by using experience of China to overcome these obstacles. Is it so?

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#133

Post by pvdebbe »

Myrth wrote: post #60

The last example made me wonder if it's possible to do something like this: val oneInch = 2.54.mm println("One inch is $oneInch.cm() centimeters")

My hunch says that in order to be anywhere usable, any extra arithmetic must be done inside curly brackets, much like in Perl or PHP. It makes sense and is easy to parse for both human and compiler.

  println("foo ${oneInch.cm()} bar")
  println("fez $quux")

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#134

Post by techno_modus »

kozak wrote: post #89
Apocryphon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they open source it, maybe someone should fork it called Kiev.

Ironically, the name "Kiev" would be no less offensive becuase this spelling of the name implies that this is a Russian city, not a Ukrainian one. The official and correct spelling is "Kyiv", see http://kyiv.of-cour.se/ for explanations why.

> The official and correct spelling … I think "official" and "correct" are two different things especially in countries where social networks and other internet services are prohibited like Ukraine.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#135

Post by 59nadir »

mstade wrote: post #131
quonn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia when dealing with Java programmers either.

At first I read this as "Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia" and found it quite offensive on multiple levels. Somehow, my mind just stopped processing input! Thankfully I reread your statement, but boy do I need caffeine – clearly!

One might say you need... java.

With regards to the potential politics of naming things I think it's a tricky thing. When a brand has been established it's already too late and what started as "Naming something after a Russian island" ends up being problematic.

We're too global in software development to release a brand renamed in certain regions to solve this the traditional way, so libraries and languages have to be extra careful when dealing with naming.

Honestly, though, I would think we could all get past it by considering that maybe names are just names and we should be above the politics.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#136

Post by Jach »

59nadir wrote: post #135
mstade wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I read this as "Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia" and found it quite offensive on multiple levels. Somehow, my mind just stopped processing input! Thankfully I reread your statement, but boy do I need caffeine – clearly!

One might say you need... java. With regards to the potential politics of naming things I think it's a tricky thing. When a brand has been established it's already too late and what started as "Naming something after a Russian island" ends up being problematic. We're too global in software development to release a brand renamed in certain regions to solve this the traditional way, so libraries and languages have to b…

A simple heuristic: if a developer has a hissy fit over the project names of Coq, Brainfuck, or Stalin, don't work with them.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#137

Post by vbezhenar »

coldtea wrote: post #102
NathanFlurry wrote: post #62

One has structures, ARC, proper extensions, good protocols/interfaces, flexible enums, and runs natively. The other one doesn't. I think I'll choose the former.

One has a top-notch IDE from a top-notch IDE vendor. The other has XCode. Also, ARC aside, for the 3-4 items you mentioned, either Kotlin also also has them, or has just as good alternatives. And none of those are life-changing. ARC vs a good GC is just a different tradeoff (no cycle detection vs pauses, etc). I'm sure you can find some things where Swift is better at, and others where Kotlin is. But not that many to…

ARC does have a pauses when huge graph is being destroyed. Advantage of ARC is that its pauses are predictable.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#138

Post by 3chelon »

Jach wrote: post #136
59nadir wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might say you need... java. With regards to the potential politics of naming things I think it's a tricky thing. When a brand has been established it's already too late and what started as "Naming something after a Russian island" ends up being problematic. We're too global in software development to release a brand renamed in certain regions to solve this the traditional way, so libraries and languages have to b…

A simple heuristic: if a developer has a hissy fit over the project names of Coq, Brainfuck, or Stalin, don't work with them.

Ah, but is there a line? Where does it get drawn?

Without explicitly naming them, once you get into the realm of Stalinism or the holocaust, surely it wouldn't take too much imagination to come up with a few names too unsavoury even for you?

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#139

Post by belovrv »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

It's important to emphasise, that Kotlin is a name of island. Not a military base. That's it.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#140

Post by StavrosK »

igor_filippov wrote: post #90
bschwindHN wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, this seems reasonable compared to the complaints against CockroachDB

It's named after an island, don't see why it's reasonable.

Whereas it's completely reasonable to object against naming something after an insect?
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