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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#151

Post by brainfire »

nugget wrote: post #32
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

The cleverest move was to integrate Cortana with local file and application search, which many users likely use as a universal command line/shortcut (hit windows key and just start typing). I find that when I disable Cortana, local search becomes severely degraded. If anyone has any tips on how to fix this, I'd appreciate them.

What do you mean by "degraded"? Does anyone else have this problem?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#152

Post by ZoFreX »

vezycash wrote: post #24
madiathomas wrote: post #12

I would like to keep my Windows Update on, but I just can't afford it. Data bundles are too expensive where I live. I can buy a week's worth of groceries with the amount I spend buying just 2GB data bundle. Not everyone lives in a country with cheap data bundles.

This is exactly my situation. Worse, ever used a wifi network slowed to a crawl by different laptops updating windows? I once had to turn off updates on all laptops in my workplace so we could use the internet. (They thought the network was under a virus attack)

> I once had to turn off updates on all laptops in my workplace so we could use the internet.

In such a situation you can dramatically reduce the bandwidth required by setting up an update server. There's no need for every laptop to download the same patch from the internet, download the patch once and everyone gets it.

(I appreciate that doesn't help the situation where you don't have enough data for one machine)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#153

Post by ZoFreX »

rhodysurf wrote: post #103
setq wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only happens if you put the updates off of they've been there for a couple of days and you have something running that makes it assume that the machine is still active. People seeding torrents overnight seems to be the only place I see that not happen. See update notifications? At the end of the day, restart and install the updates. It's not rocket science. It doesn't just hit patch Tuesday and then reboot immed…

Some people run complex simulations that take days or weeks to run, and a forced reboot in the middle ruins progress. If someone needs to skip an update on their own machine and their own network that is their right.

> If someone needs to skip an update on their own machine and their own network that is their right.

And if you want your machine to DDoS Playstation Network that's your right too, right?

And if I want my kid to get measles and spread it around, that's my right?

As much as you may argue it's your machine, and your right, sooner or later your choices start to impact other people. What about their rights, then?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#154

Post by vocatus_gate »

retox wrote: post #45
madiathomas wrote: post #12

I would like to keep my Windows Update on, but I just can't afford it. Data bundles are too expensive where I live. I can buy a week's worth of groceries with the amount I spend buying just 2GB data bundle. Not everyone lives in a country with cheap data bundles.

I believe at one point the windows 10 complete installer was downloaded to everyone, 'just incase' they decided to install. Really narrow-minded behaviour.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations.

In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom-rolled and tailored to that project. Which means they're very fragile and need to be left alone.

Of course Microsoft blasts Win10 installer files down our very expensive, very slow satellite link, and proceeds to force Win7/8 systems to Win10 which broke a few multi-million dollar experiments in a place that takes MONTHS to get to in the winter. So effectively killed the research.

And yeah, you can argue "well you should've disabled Windows updates etc etc" but in REALITY, not perfect-theory world, you should be able to trust your OS manufacturer not to force-install a major OS revision without your consent. And in the old days of Microsoft, you could. Now they just say "f--- you, we're installing it regardless what you want."

That company can die in a fire for all I care.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#155

Post by dandare »

kbart wrote: post #144
dandare wrote: post #88

Why can't Microsoft or NSA or whatever good samaritan use the same vulnerability and attack vector to force-spread the update or at least a patch of some kind?

Because accessing and modifying computer systems without owner's prior agreement is a crime in most parts of the world. Why would MS, NSA or any other entity would risk potential trials?

Did MS not force upgrade users to Win10 against their will - which caused many of them to switch off autoupdate in the first place?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#156

Post by setq »

psyc wrote: post #131
setq wrote: post #11

I don't know why people complain about updates and restarting, particularly in this thread. You fill your car up with fuel regularly because it has been warning you it's nearly empty for a while much like updates remind you regularly. People seem to complain and say "it updated right when I was in the middle of X" but they've been putting it off for ages. Do you break down in the middle of the motorway when you run o…

Car needs gas. User doesn't need the updates. > putting everyone else at risk What hyperbole. And what a bizarre thing to socially shame people over. This is like using 9/11 to emotionally argue for behavior changes, a week after 9/11.

The user is not usually in a position to decide if they need updates or not or to judge whether or not they are putting themselves at risk by not updating the machine.

That's a terrible analogy. I have been shaming people for bad security practices and self-righteous ignorance for many years (even before 9/11 ironically!).

I've seen too many people have been wrong and had a bad outcome including complete data loss and in one case livelihood being shot entirely. This isn't a random assertion from thin air. You can't trust people to look after their computers.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#157

Post by UK-AL »

cartoonfoxes wrote: post #127
setq wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an edge case for a very small percentage of users. Use GPMC to turn it off entirely or change the key at: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings Set DWORD IsActiveHoursEnabled to 0.

I have no idea why this scenario gets talked about so little. It is an edge case, but its a huge edge-case. There are entire ecosystems of Windows-only software where running batch operations overnight are a daily fact of life. I'm nearly resigned to the fact that I may have to segregate engineering workstations to their own network and whitelist their traffic. IsActiveHoursEnabled is ignored.

I would assume the large majority of windows users doing batch stuff over night are businesses.

At that point you should probably be using windows server + wsus. Which give you a lot more control over updates.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#158

Post by vocatus_gate »

vezycash wrote: post #24
madiathomas wrote: post #12

I would like to keep my Windows Update on, but I just can't afford it. Data bundles are too expensive where I live. I can buy a week's worth of groceries with the amount I spend buying just 2GB data bundle. Not everyone lives in a country with cheap data bundles.

This is exactly my situation. Worse, ever used a wifi network slowed to a crawl by different laptops updating windows? I once had to turn off updates on all laptops in my workplace so we could use the internet. (They thought the network was under a virus attack)

I'm Army Reserve and we frequently have this problem in field exercises. Fire up some Win10 laptops on our very limited Verizon MiFi access point, they promptly download gig's of updates without consent and immediately push the bandwidth past the limit and the AP gets throttled to oblivion.

Yeah yeah you can turn of Windows updates or whatever, but you shouldn't have to do that just to force Microsoft to respect your wishes to update when you want to. And no, I'm not talking about some stupid restricted 8-hour window with no other option outside completely shutting down the service. TBH I'm still surprised they haven't tried to block users from doing that too at this point.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#159

Post by kbart »

dandare wrote: post #155
kbart wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because accessing and modifying computer systems without owner's prior agreement is a crime in most parts of the world. Why would MS, NSA or any other entity would risk potential trials?

Did MS not force upgrade users to Win10 against their will - which caused many of them to switch off autoupdate in the first place?

I'm sure automated updates were covered in EULA. Not that I agree with this MS step though (see my other comment in this thread).
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