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AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

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151–160 of 169 posts

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does sound pretty spectacular, and really loud. What kind of case would you put that in? Would you work with ear protection?

Wrt. noise: decibels (dB, "perceived loudness") are logarithmic in sound energy, so going from e.g. a single GTX 1080 at 47 dB to 8x GTX 1080 only increases the noise to 56 dB, which is noticeable but not really annoying, and very far from requiring ear protection. Recommendations for office spaces is that noise be kept Wrt. cases: I think a regular E-ATX compatible case should be enough, but it all depends on the mo…

Your noise scale is off. 60dB is restaurant conversation level noise.

For comparison, Notebookcheck's system noise scale is 30dB=silent, 40dB=audible, 50dB=loud.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#152
post #147

1. Most of the benchmarks are not even compiled or made with Zen Optimization in mind. But the results are already promising, or even Surprising. 2. Compared to Desktop / Windows Ecosystem, their are much more Open Source Software on the Server side, along with usual Open Source Compiler. Which means any AMD Zen optimization will be far easier to deploy compared to Games and App on Desktop coded and compiled with Int…

> 5. Between now and 2020, the roadmap has Zen+ and 7nm. Along with PCI-E 4.0. I am very excited!

Yes, and it's rumored that the top end 7nm chip will be 48 cores (codename starship). Exciting times ahead now that the competition is back.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#153
post #21

How well does, say, Postgres scale on such hardware? Is anything more that 8 cores overkill or can we assume good linear increases in queries per second...

Depends on your queries. I am looking at a server right now that uses 80% of 32 cores with Postgres 9.6. It's doing lots of upserts and small selects. Averages 76k transactions per second. I think it could easily take advantage of a 64 core system. The main scalability issue I have with Postgres is its horrible layout of data pages on disk. You can't order rows to be layed out on disk according to primary key. You ca…

Have you looked into pg_repack [1]? It's a PostgreSQL extension that can CLUSTER online, without holding an exclusive lock. I haven't used it, but it looks interesting as an alternative to the built-in CLUSTER.

[1] http://reorg.github.io/pg_repack/

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naples is based on Ryzen which, if you look at early benchmarks, is beating the competition on all fronts except gaming (suspectedly due to software optimisation and motherboard issues).

yes but four modules of ryzen to make this beastly naples chip isn't going to be clocked at the same frequencies. the top end intel chips have TDPs of 165W but 4 ryzen chips at 3.6ghz have a tdp of 65w a piece and you're not going to see a 260W server chip if you want to sell into the datacenter.

The E7's go to 160W each. If you can drive better than 1.7x the performance and stay within the maximum thermal output per physical volume, I see no reason why not to use this.

One reason, perhaps, is if my binaries are compiled with Intel-specific optimizations and it's inconvenient to deploy separate AMD-optimized binaries.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#155
post #34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your queries. I am looking at a server right now that uses 80% of 32 cores with Postgres 9.6. It's doing lots of upserts and small selects. Averages 76k transactions per second. I think it could easily take advantage of a 64 core system. The main scalability issue I have with Postgres is its horrible layout of data pages on disk. You can't order rows to be layed out on disk according to primary key. You ca…

I think I saw a proposal recently for something that would cover this use case. IIRC it was for an index organized table that stores the entire contents in a btree (so it would naturally be stored in primary key order). I don't think there's been any work on it yet though.

The main utility of CLUSTER is to mark a table as sorted - that is, few disc seeks will be required on an index-scan of the table. This is important when doing (for example) a merge join with another table, or just when you are requesting a large proportion of the table in sorted order. Postgres knows enough statistics about the order of entries in the table to know that it can read the table faster in order using the index with the occasional seek for recently added elements than if it was to do a sequential scan and re-sort the table in memory (spilling to disc if necessary).

A B-tree can in no terms be described as being laid out on disc in primary key order. The individual pages of the tree are placed on disc randomly, as they are allocated. Therefore an index scan won't return the rows in index order as quickly as the current scheme of having the rows separate from the index and sorting them every now and again.

Ultimately, for the goal of fast in-order scan of a table while adding/removing rows, you need the rows to be laid out on disc in that order, so that a sequential scan of the disc can be performed with few seeks. This requires that inserted rows are actually inserted in the space they should be, which is not always possible - often there isn't space in the page, and you don't want to spend lots of time shifting the rest of the rows rightwards a little bit to make space. To a certain extent Postgres already does insert in the right place if there is space in the right disc page (from deleted rows), but because this is not always possible, the solution is to re-CLUSTER the table every now and again.

I think the Postgres way is actually very well thought out.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#157

This is what I have really been looking forward to. I theorycrafted a more ideal system for the genetics work a former employer was doing, but didn't get to build it until after I had left there. A quad 16 core opteron system for a total of 64 cores (for physics calculations in comsol). I think that there is more potential use for high actual core count servers than many people realize, so I can't wait to build one.…

Out of curiosity, I thought that genetics was the domain of gpus?

For most of the really time consuming steps the speedup isn't spectacular, 1.6x is not worth the effort

http://ce-publications.et.tudelft.nl/publications/1520_gpuac...

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#159
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true, I should have mentioned that. At least for us, COD doesn't seem to impact our performance at all, while NUMA does. I'm hoping that Naples is the same for us. However, there is an important difference. AMD seems to be putting multiple dies into the same package , whereas Intel seems to have (as the Cluster on Die name implies) everything on the same die. So my fear is that the interconnect between dies may…

Sounds like your application is latency sensitive, and not bandwidth sensitive, take a look at the graphs towards the end of this article: https://www.starwindsoftware.com/blog/numa-and-cluster-on-di... There's not much difference in memory bandwidth between crossing domains on the same die (COD) vs crossing domains system wide (accessing memory for a different socket). What kind of computation are you running?

I'm talking about Netflix CDN servers. The workload is primarily file serving. The twist is that we use a non-NUMA aware OS (FreeBSD).

We're not latency sensitive at all. The problem we run into with NUMA is that we totally saturate QPI due to FreeBSD's lack of NUMA awareness.

The results you link to don't match with what we've seen on our HCC Broadwell CPUs, at least with COD disabled. Though we only really look at aggregate system bandwidth, so potentially the slowness accessing the "far" memory on the same socket is latency driven, and falls away in aggregate.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#160
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FPGA type applications will probably pay way bigger dividends than GPU acceleration ever will. GPUs excel at problems where you can apply exactly the same logic to lots of data in parallel. CPUs can handle branching cases, where each operation requires a lot of decisions, a lot better. Sufficiently large FPGA chips could accelerate certain parts of the workflow, if not the whole thing, since they're extremely good at…

I've heard that annually for a decade or so. FPGAs run hot, don't have many transistors, limited clock rate, and are a pain to program. So yeah a "Sufficiently large" chip, a "sufficiently fast clock", and a "sufficiently well written app" could theoretically do well. Problem is in the real world they aren't and developers aren't targeting them.

CPUs and GPUs are a pain to program if you don't have the right tools. If it's tooling that's the huge impediment then maybe Intel's acquisition and (hopefully) tool realignment will help.

That the FPGAs use this proprietary and for all intents opaque binary format is not very helpful and is probably the biggest barrier.

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