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AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

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Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#21

Post by eis »

andy_ppp wrote: post #11

How well does, say, Postgres scale on such hardware? Is anything more that 8 cores overkill or can we assume good linear increases in queries per second...

Depends on your queries. I am looking at a server right now that uses 80% of 32 cores with Postgres 9.6. It's doing lots of upserts and small selects. Averages 76k transactions per second. I think it could easily take advantage of a 64 core system.

The main scalability issue I have with Postgres is its horrible layout of data pages on disk. You can't order rows to be layed out on disk according to primary key. You can CLUSTER the table every now and then but that's not really practical for most production loads.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#22

Post by drewg123 »

The important thing here, from my perspective, is how NUMA-ish a single socket configuration will be. According to the article, a single package is actually made up of 4 dies, each with its own memory (and presumably cache hierarchy, etc). While trivially parallelizable workloads (like HPC benchmarks) scale quite well regardless of system topology, not all workloads do so. And teaching kernel schedulers about 2 levels of numa affinity may not be trivial.

With that say, I'm looking forward to these systems.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#23

Post by mrb »

ptrptr wrote: post #14
daemonk wrote: post #9

Nice. This is the more interesting market for AMD rather than the gaming market in my opinion. 128 PCIe lanes and up to 4TB of ram will be awesome.

Gaming? More like consumer market, Ryzen 7 is definitely not suited for gamers, advertising it as such was IMO mistake. Nevertheless Naples can be big innovation in server segment. Also what with ECC? Ryzen can support it or not?

"Ryzen 7 is definitely not suited for gamers"

The underperformance in gaming was tracked down to software issues according to AMD. Namely:

- bugs in the Windows process scheduler (scheduling 2 threads on same core, and moving threads across CPU complexes which loses all L3 cache data since each CCX has its own cache)

- buggy BIOS accidentally disabling Boost or the High Performance mode (feature that lets the processor adjust voltage and clock every 1 ms instead of every 40 ms.)

- games containing Intel-optimized code

More info: http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-launch-aftermath-gaming-perfor...

Furthermore hardcore gamers usually play at 1440p or higher in which case there is no difference in perf between Intel or AMD, as demonstrated by the many benchmarks (because the GPU is always the bottleneck at such high resolutions.)

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#24

Post by quickben »

rl3 wrote: post #10

In previous threads there was discussion about Intel processors, specifically Skylake (which is a desktop processor), being superior for server workloads involving vectorization. How will Naples fare on this front?

That front remains to be seen. However, 128 lanes, 8 channel ram; It will make a mess out of Intel in the vm hosting arena.

I'm glad I don't own any Intel stock atm :)

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#25

Post by qaq »

mozumder wrote: post #17
brianwawok wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from 2012: http://rhaas.blogspot.com/2012/04/did-i-say-32-cores-how-abo... My guess is the 1 socket options scales great. 2 sockets are are less than ideal, and you will not double the 1 socket performance.

I'd like to see this data on Postgres scaling updated, with more info on the write scaling as well. (the chart appears to be for SELECT queries only)

Outside of some very exotic scenarios you are IOPS bound on writes and not CPU bound.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#26

Post by Tostino »

brianwawok wrote: post #13
andy_ppp wrote: post #11

How well does, say, Postgres scale on such hardware? Is anything more that 8 cores overkill or can we assume good linear increases in queries per second...

This is from 2012: http://rhaas.blogspot.com/2012/04/did-i-say-32-cores-how-abo... My guess is the 1 socket options scales great. 2 sockets are are less than ideal, and you will not double the 1 socket performance.

Yeah, every single release since then has had work done on scaling Postgres up on a single machine. They have been working on eliminating bottlenecks one after another to allow it to scale on crazy numbers of cores.

I've seen benchmarks on the -hackers mailing list with 88 core Intel servers (4s 22c) in regard to eliminating bottlenecks when you have that many cores. So even if it's not 100% there yet, it will be soon.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#27

Post by Scaevolus »

floatboth wrote: post #16
tw04 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel hass had SHA1/2 acceleration for YEARS via the AES-NI instruction set. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_SHA_extensions >There are seven new SSE-based instructions, four supporting SHA-1 and three for SHA-256: >SHA1RNDS4, SHA1NEXTE, SHA1MSG1, SHA1MSG2, SHA256RNDS2, SHA256MSG1, SHA256MSG2

haha nope. This is not a part of AES-NI. The only processors so far with these extensions are low power Goldmont chips. https://github.com/weidai11/cryptopp/issues/139

Goldmont probably has them because it doesn't have the wide AVX pipelines necessary for fast software crypto.

Skylake can compute SHA1 at 4.3-3.4 cycles/B and SHA256 at 7-9 cycles/B [1]. That's ~1GB/s SHA1 and ~500MB/s SHA256.

1: https://bench.cr.yp.to/results-hash.html#amd64-skylake

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#28

Post by throwawayish »

tw04 wrote: post #12
throwawayish wrote: post #2

I think Naples is a very exciting development, because: - 1S/2S is obviously where the pie is. Few servers are 4S. - 8 DDR4 channels per socket is twice the memory bandwidth of 2011, and still more than LGA-36712312whateverthenumberwas - First x86 server platform with SHA1/2 acceleration - 128 PCIe lanes in a 1S system is unprecedented All in all Naples seems like a very interesting platform for throughput-intensive…

Intel hass had SHA1/2 acceleration for YEARS via the AES-NI instruction set. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_SHA_extensions >There are seven new SSE-based instructions, four supporting SHA-1 and three for SHA-256: >SHA1RNDS4, SHA1NEXTE, SHA1MSG1, SHA1MSG2, SHA256RNDS2, SHA256MSG1, SHA256MSG2

This is not part of AES-NI and has never been released in a mid-range+ server/desktop CPU, only part of some Atom parts (Goldmont). Therefore software support is poor (I think OpenSSL does not support it). It is said to be included in 2018+ Cannonlake, though.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#29

Post by qaq »

brianwawok wrote: post #20
mozumder wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see this data on Postgres scaling updated, with more info on the write scaling as well. (the chart appears to be for SELECT queries only)

The other change is now a single select can use multiple cores, so you could see how that scaled to 32, 64, 128 cores...

On highly concurrent PG systems by when using parallel queries you are sacrificing throughput for better latency. You really don't want to use more than a fairly small number of workers per single select.

Re: AMD Prepares 32-Core Naples CPUs for 1P and 2P Servers: Coming in Q2

#30

Post by keth »

I'm looking forward to the benchmarks since the performance per watt of the desktop parts (Ryzen R7) seems to be really good. Quite curious how it will compare against Skylake-EP.

A quote from a anandtech forum post [0] reads promising:

"850 points in Cinebench 15 at 30W is quite telling. Or not telling, but absolutely massive. Zeppelin can reach absolutely monstrous and unseen levels of efficiency, as long as it operates within its ideal frequency range."

A comparison against a Xeon D at 30W would be interesting.

The possibility of this monster maybe coming out sometime in the future is also quite nice: http://www.computermachines.org/joe/publications/pdfs/hpca20...

[0] https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technica...

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