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How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

nytimes.com

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Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#151

Post by tmcpro »

SilasX wrote: post #111

It took me about 8 paragraphs in to figure out what Greyball is, so to save you the time: Uber used various data sources to identify which people are likely government officials who are trying to collect incriminating data on them, and then blocks them from the service so they can't be caught in sting operations. But there's a lot in the article that doesn't make sense: >Other techniques included looking at the user’…

All credit cards have a BIN number (first 6 digits) that typically are associated with one bank. Checkout this list[1]

[1] https://www.bindb.com/bin-list.html

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#152

Post by snappyTertle »

geofft wrote: post #132
lacampbell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the US government much, but I like it a lot better than the average multinational. When it comes down to it, we don't have more than our choice of devils. If I don't like Uber, I can... stop using Uber. What can I do if I don't like the service a state provides - can I opt out and stop paying? No, my only option is to flee - which the state will often try and prevent you doing anyway. The state is a huge…

> If I don't like Uber, I can... stop using Uber. This is a super naive view of how markets work (and I'm very surprised to see this out of someone who calls the state a "corporation"). I don't really mind Uber as a service; they get me where I need to go. I hate Uber as a market participant. They change the economics of taxis, of existing black car services, of public transit, etc., i.e., of every single thing I'm u…

You want it out, but it's pretty clear other people don't. Why are you able to force your personal views on other?

You are free to choose not to use Uber, others are free to choose for themselves.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#153

Post by alphonsegaston »

oculusthrift wrote: post #103
alphonsegaston wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the Uber employees I've interacted with have taken a quite cynical "who gives a fuck - IPO" stance or will rationalize away their behavior to an absurd degree. With this series of leaks from current and former Uber employees, I'm glad to see that there are more ethical people at Uber than I had previously thought.

i think the poster you're responding to didn't realize your first paragraph was sarcasm

I edited my comment to include a sarcasm tag.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#154

Post by mikey_p »

harryh wrote: post #128

Let's be clear here. The laws Uber violated here were bad laws. They were the result of a semi-corrupt relationship between city governments and taxi cab companies. Uber has been the prime mover in killing these laws. That's a good thing.

Laws about accessibility and safety are bad laws?

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#155

Post by accountface »

jjawssd wrote: post #73
paulcole wrote: post #56

Uber really getting Theranos-ed lately. It's like the press was saving up their Uber hit pieces and is just unleashing them this week.

Unlike Theranos, Uber has a product that works very well and at a low cost to the consumer.

The cost is artificially low due to loss-backed driver subsidies.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#156

Post by nemacol »

voxic11 wrote: post #112
nemacol wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. The only thing you can do with Uber is use it or not. Maybe you could write Uber a letter. You have a say in government - that is its stated goal and purpose. Of the people for the people.

All those options also apply to Uber, you can buy it or join it and convince the shareholders to make your CEO.

I think I understand your point. Trying to compare a persons influence in government, a system designed to encourage citizen participation, to that of a corporation, a system designed to make as much money as possible and answer to share holders, is not great.

"In order to form a more perfect union" VS "the pursuit of shareholder wealth."

Even if the system is not working exactly the way we want - it never will - we are still endowed with the rights to participate. The same cannot be said for corporations.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#157

Post by eridius »

Karunamon wrote: post #123
eridius wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just make the argument that the government enforcing the laws is immoral?

Depends on what the laws are. A law gains no special moral quality via the legislative process. Immoral laws exist.

OP was arguing that because they don't like the law it's immoral to enforce. Whether or not OP likes the law really has nothing to do with whether the law is immoral.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#158

Post by chris_wot »

fisherjeff wrote: post #140
SilasX wrote: post #111

It took me about 8 paragraphs in to figure out what Greyball is, so to save you the time: Uber used various data sources to identify which people are likely government officials who are trying to collect incriminating data on them, and then blocks them from the service so they can't be caught in sting operations. But there's a lot in the article that doesn't make sense: >Other techniques included looking at the user’…

> I couldn't find a good source, but it doesn't seem like that's something a CC merchant would have access to. Do they really get to see that? The first six digits identify the issuing institution. Here's a free service for looking up a bank based on that information: https://binbase.com

They also record the last 4 digits. I guess they could use some sort of algorithm to determine the probability it is an official, especially if they combine it with other data.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#159

Post by rdtsc »

> Uber then served up a fake version of its app that was populated with ghost cars, to evade capture.

> To date, Greyballing has been effective. In Portland that day in late 2014, Mr. England, the enforcement officer, did not catch an Uber, according to local reports.

> To circumvent that tactic, Uber employees went to that city’s local electronics stores to look up device numbers of the cheapest mobile phones on sale, which were often the ones bought by city officials, whose budgets were not sizable.

Holy moley. That is so slimy and sneaky.

Well heck this opens a new startup opportunity -- build a device or service to create phone and accounts to evade Greyball and sell its usage to local law enforcement. The price would be low enough if it is sold or provided per hour for example. They could afford that.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#160

Post by remx »

I like this. Some call it hustle, others call it evading LE because cashflow is king, and nothing shall stop the flow.

I commend this but also frown at it for being so brazen. If such a tool was used for the opposite reasons (spotting crime and reporting it to police), then perhaps the tool might stand a chance, but showcasing it in full view of LEOs is outright brazen and guaranteed to embarrass.

People are campaigning on Twitter to #DeleteUber[0] but fail to recognize the naive nature of the story. I consider Uber nothing more than an ongoing experiment, and any tool they release to increase their revenue should be both commended and also be treated with suspicion.

[0] https://twitter.com/hashtag/deleteuber

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