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How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

nytimes.com

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Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#121

Post by darawk »

nemacol wrote: post #100
lacampbell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the US government much, but I like it a lot better than the average multinational. When it comes down to it, we don't have more than our choice of devils. If I don't like Uber, I can... stop using Uber. What can I do if I don't like the service a state provides - can I opt out and stop paying? No, my only option is to flee - which the state will often try and prevent you doing anyway. The state is a huge…

You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. The only thing you can do with Uber is use it or not. Maybe you could write Uber a letter. You have a say in government - that is its stated goal and purpose. Of the people for the people.

The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. I can not choose not to be pulled over for speeding, or opt out of murder laws temporarily.

The fact that you don't have a say in Uber's corporate decisions is irrelevant, because you can simply stop using it. You don't need a say. The fact that you can't opt out of government is why you're given a say, and what makes it infinitely more dangerous.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#122

Post by eridius »

oculusthrift wrote: post #103
alphonsegaston wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the Uber employees I've interacted with have taken a quite cynical "who gives a fuck - IPO" stance or will rationalize away their behavior to an absurd degree. With this series of leaks from current and former Uber employees, I'm glad to see that there are more ethical people at Uber than I had previously thought.

i think the poster you're responding to didn't realize your first paragraph was sarcasm

It was? That would make a lot more sense.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#123

Post by Karunamon »

eridius wrote: post #74
lacampbell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the US government much, but I like it a lot better than the average multinational. When it comes down to it, we don't have more than our choice of devils. If I don't like Uber, I can... stop using Uber. What can I do if I don't like the service a state provides - can I opt out and stop paying? No, my only option is to flee - which the state will often try and prevent you doing anyway. The state is a huge…

Did you just make the argument that the government enforcing the laws is immoral?

Depends on what the laws are. A law gains no special moral quality via the legislative process. Immoral laws exist.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#124

Post by rl3 »

Setting aside the rather questionable ethics for a moment, this program is quite badass when looking at it from a purely logistical point of view.

In fact, it's so machiavellian that it feels like I'm reading an article disclosing an NSA program and not a private transportation company's activities.

If only they had the same fervor for say, combating sexual harassment in the workplace.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#125

Post by KirinDave »

dnautics wrote: post #84
maldusiecle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective is the opposite. In a world where large multinationals have the power to evade the law in a deliberate and systematic way like this, it's easy for governments to claim they need the same kind of power. Things like this are exactly what bureaucrats point to when they make their arguments for a surveillance state. I don't like the US government much, but I like it a lot better than the average multinatio…

As horrible as Uber is, it hasn't done any extrajudicial drone strikes on civilians, yet.

At the rate and escalation of Uber stories we're seeing, you might want to be more cagey juuuust to be safe.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#127

Post by greghendershott »

Not only am I done with Uber, I'm starting to wonder about associates and partners (investors, advisors, marketing partners, etc.)

If you're still doing business with Uber in 2017, it's because you don't want to know or you don't care who you're dealing with. Neither reflects well on you. It tells me you have your own very low bar -- your own version of "well we're not as awful as taxis shrug" -- above which anything goes ethically and professionally.

Which is your choice. It is also my choice to be concerned about doing business with you and steer clear.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#129

Post by accountface »

oculusthrift wrote: post #8

I'm not excusing Uber at all because what they've done is extremely bad in multiple cases but find it strange all these hit pieces are coming out of the wood works. There is a large section of society that hates Uber and will spring at any chance to bring it down. Which is partially what I think happened with the whole #boycottUber thing and the new video of kalanick yelling at the driver. However, the sexism and dys…

A single leak will often embolden others to follow suit, it's somewhat typical.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#130

Post by dqv »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #85
HorizonXP wrote: post #6

How diabolical! In a world where privacy has been traded away for convenience, it's poetic justice where a startup uses data mining techniques to subvert the government. This is the same government that would have no issues to use the same techniques to spy on its own people for its own motives. I'm neither on Uber nor the government's side in this case, just simply making an observation. The lack of data privacy see…

This is an absurd false equivalency. The NSA isn't tracking down drivers, this is local law enforcement. They could be investigating a crime related to an Uber driver, but not specifically about the legality of the service. What if you were just robbed or assaulted by a driver and Uber sends fake data about nearby cars when a cop is trying to use the app to track them down?

>What if you were just robbed or assaulted by a driver and Uber sends fake data about nearby cars when a cop is trying to use the app to track them down?

Then I'd say "wow, why is this cop using an inaccurate and highly-likely-to-be-thrown-out-in-court method when the LEA has a stingray that allows them to track the driver directly and accurately?"

>this is local law enforcement

Yes, the poor, good, moral, ethical local law enforcement with their cheap and useless cellphone MiTM.

https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-...

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