Long-term stress erodes memory • Hacker News Board

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#151

Post by hansreiter » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 3:13 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #104

hansreiter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have an incredible memory, and in general attributed my SHARP decline in recall to just getting a bit older (though I'm only 27 now...). Still, I did feel that this decline helped me a lot for the very reason you mention. I used to get panic attacks a lot -- not so much anymore. I've joked before that it's almost like I've forgotten my triggers, and that my short term memory is so bad that I don't get stuck…

Hope you don't mind me asking - Are you on, or have you taken, SSRIs? I've been interested in them for a while, and one thing I've read fairly consistently is that they can cause short term (and in some cases long term) memory degradation.

No, I've never taken SSRIs. At one point I was taking xanax, but only when I had panic attacks. I hear that benzos like xanax have an affect on short term memory. I only took maybe 30-40 pills over two years. Hopefully such a seemingly cautious dose wasn't enough to mess me up!

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#152

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 9:16 PM UTC

jyriand wrote: post #93

goodcanadian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. This immediately put me in mind of the birth of my own child. While no where near as bad as you describe, my short term memory did kind of go to crap after she was born. I blame it mostly on sleep deprivation, which is a kind of stress, I suppose.

I'm having first child in few months. I'm stressed out as it is, can't even imagine what will happen when he is born. Even worse, I'm working from home.

Youll be immensely happy! And exhausted. And fighting a lot. Know that it's all normal.

Work early on to get the child a proper sleep routine and don't get them used to sleeping in the big bed, that's what most people do wrong and what pays 'dividends' aka bad sleep for a long time.

Also with one child the beautiful thing is that you can split times. So each parent can get some time completely off. But this requires that you get active early on. Start changing diapers on your own and bathing the child early on, so that neither mom nor you ever have doubts that you can handle things alone. It is TERRIFYING but oh so fun and better do it right from day one so you can enjoy it from then on and you are an equal couple from early on. Too many couples hey a bad dynamic where is only the cheap replacement mom never lets go completely, leading to stress for everyone involved.

Ideally she will breastfeed at least a few times a day for 6-12 months but even then after a few weeks she can start pumping milk and you can bottle feed, or from some point you can give formula. Remember that while you'll be exhausted she'll be even more so, it's best for your relationship and mental health if mom gets some breaks as well. believe me on that, i only learned that on the second child, when things are anyway more stressful...

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#153

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

donmatito wrote: post #136

ashark wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the poster you're asking, but have 3 kids. Stress factors include: 1) Getting very, very poor sleep, which can last anywhere from 2-12 months depending on your kid and your parenting technique. 2) Higher monthly expenses, plus a potentially-giant bill for the birth, on top of a year of smaller but still substantial bills for various things. This will be worse if the pregnancy is split over two years of insurance…

> 2) Higher monthly expenses, plus a potentially-giant bill for the birth, The toll on household finance and peace of mind of the US insurance system is incredible. The births of two daughters, including a couple of days at the hospital, peridural, pre-birth prep and post-birth followup, cost us a grand total of 30€. Of course nothing is free, we pay it through other means (taxes), but not having to think about cost…

Taxes and insurance contribution taken from your salary.

But the actual cost reduction is that the system is not a bloated for profit world with what resembles monopoly powers (well, you are free to not go to the nearest hospital...) but instead a public good, serving the people not the shareholders.

In reasonable prices a birth in western Europe will cost something like €2000 including a few days stay and possibly pre- & post-natal care. That's the amount paid by the insurance to the hospital. In the US you easily get to $30000 for a normal birth, of which then anything up to the full amount might be billed to the patient.

If you to real cost you could calculate eg the amount of taxes that pay for tuition free medical degrees, lots of pharmaceutical research, or similar things that would in the US be part of the justification for the huge cost (high tuition -> need for high earnings for doctors -> need for high prices). But in the end it's just absurd and the US system should be a warning to anyone who thinks that such a vital public service would be better if privatised.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#154

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #146

ashark wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the poster you're asking, but have 3 kids. Stress factors include: 1) Getting very, very poor sleep, which can last anywhere from 2-12 months depending on your kid and your parenting technique. 2) Higher monthly expenses, plus a potentially-giant bill for the birth, on top of a year of smaller but still substantial bills for various things. This will be worse if the pregnancy is split over two years of insurance…

> Go ahead an multiply the stress of the above by a factor of 10 if your new kid has serious health issues. 3 years ago our then-19 month old was diagnosed with type-1 diabetes - and we haven't had a decent night's rest since. For anyone not aware, type 1 diabetes is a condition where your body stops producing insulin and as a result unable to process carbs into energy. This is not type-2 diabetes that is a result of…

Your insurance premium is $20k/year plus $4k/year copay? That would for me probably be a reason to try and emigrate to a country with good public healthcare. As a programmer youll likely earn a bit less outside the US but with this cost your cash in hand and quality of life would probably still improve. A place like Berlin or London would probably make you happy with as little as possible adaptation pain.

Good luck with your son. On the positive side hopefully trusting the school system can at least give you some time off of this stress :-/

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#155

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

throw345343 wrote: post #101

thro3212 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At start I dropped everything non essential, then fixed it one thing at a time. Key was to establish routine and patterns, which does not drain mental energy and time from me. For example I have simple exercise routine I do every evening. It is just stuff I do before shower and bed. I also stopped driving in narrow city roads, I leave a car at motorway exit and walk last mile. Forget self-help stuff. It is really jus…

as someone that's suffering from these symptoms rightnow, I'd be happy to listen to any advice you could offer. My memory used to be very very good, but these days I forget things easily and have a hard time recalling details from stories that may have happened years ago. For me, i bootstrapped a startup for a long time (4 years) and ultimately failed and walked away from it and have been picking myself up since then…

Invest time in your mental health, ie give your brain time and the possibility to truly rest. Meditation, walks in the woods (no headphones!), a fun (!) book at a rekaxing place. Or if that's too much at least start by not filling every minute. No smartphone on the toilet, no music or podcasts while walking to work, swim rather than gym, walk or public transport where possible rather than the car, not every evening a beer "to relax" but instead just a warm drink, smartphone away when playing with the kids, ...

If you really want to go bold, one of the best decisions in my life was to do a ten day silent meditation (i did one of those of dhamma.org; free courses where you of course donate according to your means at the end).

Idle time is an investment in your brain. We don't need constant information or entertainment.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#156

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 10:02 PM UTC

treehau5 wrote: post #39

kingmanaz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggestions: Epictetus' Enchiridion. A cheap, used Dover Editions copy off Ebay is all one needs. Also, if a Christian, morning and evening prayers by candlelight using the 1928 Book of Common Prayer.

hesychasm -- the most underrated aspect of christian spirituality, sadly expelled by most reformation and counter-reformation traditions. A good exercise is to just sit quietly in a dark room, and completely empty your mind. Think no thoughts -- whether you believe them to be good or bad. This simple thing turns out to be so incredibly difficult, that many monks on the Holy Mountain have mastered. I myself can barely…

You'd love vipassana meditation.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#157

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

donmatito wrote: post #137

thro3212 wrote: post #12

Sadly I can confirm this from personal experience. I was under a lot of stress for the past three years. Before stress started I had almost photographic memory. I was not very smart software developer. But ability to recall patterns and documentation fast, made me very productive. I worked at CS semi-research position and spoke at conference every other month. Now it takes mental effort to recall what I did 4 hours a…

May I ask you kindly, to the extend you want to share, why having a new child caused such high level of stress? I mean, having two daughters, I can totally relate to sleep deprivation and everyday chores. But unless there is a medical emergency or financial distress, I am under the impression that most parents find enough joy to compensate for the stress? It's like we're onto drugs :-) Again, that's true only if the…

Not OP, but my experience is that it's immensely fun but also immensely exhausting. Apart from sleep loss and new duties to fit into busy days there were also stressors, eg like many couples we moved houses when the second one was born. Timing was suboptimal as things got delayed and suddenly much too much had to happen at the same time.

Otherwise for me stressful was in particular to lose/reduce large parts of my social life (eg Toastmasters or going out to talks and discussions, theater, for beer with friends, ... Before children i was out 4-5 evenings a week, now maybe 2/month). Your life structure changes, which may or may not be easy for everyone to adapt to depending on the before & after. I have no regrets, but i do miss what used to be couple- or me-time and relaxing and simulating activities.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#158

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 10:14 PM UTC

throwaway_374 wrote: post #35

thro3212 wrote: post #12

Sadly I can confirm this from personal experience. I was under a lot of stress for the past three years. Before stress started I had almost photographic memory. I was not very smart software developer. But ability to recall patterns and documentation fast, made me very productive. I worked at CS semi-research position and spoke at conference every other month. Now it takes mental effort to recall what I did 4 hours a…

YMMV but if you're willing to experiment I'd recommend looking into nootropics, specifically Noopept and Pramiracetam helped me.

Before you try these probably best to first try and try natural methods, eg meditation. Just to be clear, I'm not making any assumptions about you, but for most that should be the first step. Don't try to change your brain if you haven't even tried to get to know it.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#159

Post by summarite » Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 10:17 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #119

ChuckMcM wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it feels like inflammation is the new cholesterol.

Yeah, whenever we declare all out war on something, it's pretty much a guarantee of future recantations. A lot of it seems to run along the lines of confusing correlation with causation.

It's an interesting term that seems to mean something when in reality we understand little about the mechanism and effects. But good to keep researching it, i suppose.

Re: Long-term stress erodes memory

#160

Post by ehoogland » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #139

toomuchtodo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm positive that we fall under the "uncommonly good" category. For comparison, my wife and I are on a marketplace plan, and out of a total of $60k in expenses for our newborn daughter, we were responsible for ~$12k. We want to have more children, but I would move from the US to a first world country to do so.

I know you're making a joke, but first/second/third refers to political affiliation in the cold war and is not to do with economic prowess. First = US/W.Europe + Allies Second = Soviet Union/China + Allies Third = Non-aligned

I find your comment an important reminder of the original sense of the phrase, but I disagree that third world has nothing to do with economic prowess. You are referring to both the etymology and formal definition of the phrase "third world" country. Political journals will generally use third world in this restricted sense, and dictionaries may even list the original definition first. Nonetheless, in modern parlance it has everything to do with economic prowess. It is used--in developed countries at the very least--as the pejorative analog to "developing country".

As a first world resident I am not sure about the prevalence of this usage in developing countries. I know I would not be thrilled to have my country--and, by extension, culture--referred to as "third world". I wouldn't be surprised if it is common in developing countries to note this original sense to both blunt the pain of being dissed by denizens of rich countries and to establish a sort of reverse superiority by insisting on and noting the original sense of the word.