Rant HN: I hate hackerrank • Hacker News Board

Re: Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

#151

Post by jacques_chester » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:29 PM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #139

jacques_chester wrote: post #46

Here's how I was assessed for my job at Pivotal: 1. I did a simple tech screen (the RPI). 1 hour. My interviewer had a laptop and asked me questions about what to do next in the scenario. 2. Hey, come pair with this engineer on this real code on a real project on a real task. 3. How about lunch? 4. Hey, let's have you pair with this other engineer on real code on a real project on a real task. 5. Get offered a job on…

"Hey, come pair with this engineer on this real code on a real project on a real task." I don't understand how I could pair-program effectively on a code base that I'm seeing for the first time and don't know the first thing about. What would you expect me to be able to contribute?

> I don't understand how I could pair-program effectively on a code base that I'm seeing for the first time and don't know the first thing about.

Nobody expects you to magically know anything about code you've never seen before. That would be absurd.

The point is to get a sense of how you think and work as an engineer. We deliberately say that there are no "wrong" answers, that it's impossible to fuck up.

We want to know about the candidate. The decision is about hiring a person, not a list of codebases.

(Sorry for the slow reply, I was rate-limited.)

Re: Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

#152

Post by fixxer » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:47 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #108

fixxer wrote: post #72

These things are really just filters. Due to the legal aspects of hiring/recruiting, especially at large companies, these exercises are par for the course. Once you're in a large company, firing can be very difficult, so I'm all for filters. Personally, after having taken many of these tests myself, if you're having even minor problems, that is a huge red flag for me. They're really just binary filters on basic skill…

With the USA's at will and limited worker protection you must be kidding about how hard it is to fire people

In my experience, it is very hard to fire people if they are simply incompetent. You can fire them for mistakes, but just sucking at one's job is this awkward grey area where you wrestle with HR and they usually suggest investing in training, etc. That is fine and good, but when I got a deadline, I'm not going to tow deadwood.

Re: Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

#153

Post by thedufer » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 10:34 PM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #133

thedufer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using IQ is effectively illegal[2] in the US, so you'll have to find a test that acts as a good proxy. You've posted this before and been called out on it. Please stop spreading misinformation. There is nothing special about IQ tests specifically. Any proxy test will have exactly the same legal ramifications. As long as you can show that the results of that test are relevant to job performance, it is fine. Whether…

Put plainly, the callout and yourself are wrong. To muddy the waters about this may put small companies at risk. I've spoken with an lawyer about this. There is case law directly concerning IQ tests. The bar for acceptance to prove the use of IQ in hiring in a discrimination case is unattainable by most software companies. Hence, it is effectively illegal. NB: I would desperately love to use IQ tests in the US myself…

I didn't intend to imply that IQ tests are okay (although the test I suggested is in fact what you have to prove). I'm actually concerned by the suggestion that IQ proxy tests are any different. They are bound by exactly the same requirements.

Re: Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

#154

Post by yitchelle » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 6:33 AM UTC

d23 wrote: post #24

Recruiting and hiring are garbage right now in the industry. Part of the problem is easy to recognize -- idiots designing interviews. This is where the puzzle crap comes from, as well as theoretical stuff that's far removed from the day to day of what a person will be doing. The other problem is that the people who could be designing better interviews aren't stepping up. There are plenty of intelligent people who are…

> This is where the puzzle crap comes from, as well as theoretical stuff that's far removed from the day to day of what a person will be doing.

I find looking through past project work is one of the best indicators of their ability. However I have found this to be extremely difficult to get. NDA restrictions of their previous employers is one major restrictions, or he is transitioning from a different domain or career path.

Re: Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

#155

Post by rl1987 » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 11:18 AM UTC

There is no shortage of reasonably competent software developers in USA and West Europe. The very existence of things like Codility and HackerRank proves that. However, there is significant shortage of sanity and common sense in the culture of developer hiring.