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Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

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Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#151

Post by Symmetry »

berntb wrote: post #67
bbotond wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone knowledgeable about Japanese culture explain why those war crimes were so common?

Was Japanese war crimes really worse than the European standards in pre modern times? From my Swedish history, see the 30 year war (for a viewpoint not covered well in Swedish schools, google Polish deluge). To me it seems the main difference is that Sweden didn't have the same technological resources a few centuries earlier... Edit: The obvious point is -- does present Swedish culture explain why historical atrociti…

No, the Japanese in China acted pretty much the same way as the various armies marauding through Germany in the 30 years war or the various armies in the Congolese Civil War, come to that. And part of the reason the Japanese fought so hard against the Americans in the final days of WWII was that they assumed that they'd be getting the same treatment they'd be dishing out if they let America occupy their cities.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#152

Post by qrendel »

hoodoof wrote: post #35
germinalphrase wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

Boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Judo.

This.

BJJ is probably the most useful for self-defense (personal opinion), but it's also the most complicated to learn. It covers ground fighting better than wrestling or judo, which is where many situations will eventually end up. If I had to pick one, excluding MMA (which is basically a combination of everything listed), I would make it this.

Wrestling and judo for takedowns and takedown defense. Judo is more complicated and difficult to learn than wrestling (imo), but, depending on your age and physique, wrestling may be of limited use to you (a 50+ year old will likely have trouble applying many of the wrestling takedowns). A lot of what you'd need from these two would be covered in a BJJ school anyway, just with less time and focus spent on those areas.

Boxing and kickboxing to learn how to defend yourself from strikes. Again, depending on age and phyisque they may otherwise be of limited use, since an older or smaller person is unlikely to be punching with knockout power, and would run a higher risk of breaking bones in their hands when striking.

An MMA school would tend to cover all of that, but they may be more focused on competition than self-defense, which will affect what they teach you and how you train. Same problem with BJJ schools - a lot are more concerned with tournaments than self-defense, which can change the focus of your practice considerably.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#153

Post by [deleted] »

pmoriarty wrote: post #113
jbooth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, that's a bullshit point of view. For the japanese military in WWII, rape was normal. Butchering civilian populations wholesale was normal. The Americans and British did not play by those rules, even though we did a lot of killing. This was not two equivalent evils. http://foxtalk.tistory.com/98

"Butchering civilian populations wholesale was normal. The Americans and British did not play by those rules" Perhaps you are not aware of the firebombing of German and Japanese cities, where as many or more civilians died as in the nuclear bomb detonations over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which perhaps you also forget.

[deleted]

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#154

Post by wbl »

pluma wrote: post #135
wbl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the American Treblinka, the British Buchenwald? WWII was against genocidal maniacs who starved entire countries and destroyed Yiddish speaking culture.

The Allied involvement in WW2 never was about the holocaust. In fact, the full extent of the holocaust only became apparent after WW2 as Allied soldiers had liberated the concentration camps and discovered the paperwork. Also don't think that anybody in WW2 cared about the Jews. There are enough stories about Jewish refugees being rejected at borders and sent back to face certain death because nobody believed them or…

My grandmother didn't give a damn about that when the Canadians showed up. And Hitler's plans for Poland were comparable to the Shoah: 1/3 dead, 1/3 slaves, 1/3 peasants.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#155

Post by peatmoss »

velodrome wrote: post #32
hoodoof wrote: post #4

Related but at a tangent - after a lifetime of interest in karate I came to realise that most of the stuff taught at karate is not practical. Katas and karate punches and kicks - most of this better thought of more as dancing or ceremonial. A bit like Tai Chi - except that Tai Chi claims no real world martial value. The myth remains however of karate being great self defence training. Our local karate club is packed…

I think Judo and Aikido are more practical. They focus more on grappling and emphasize the redirection of the opponent's force. Most people are better off learning combat systems aimed towards personal defense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Judo maybe, aikido no. As an aikidoka myself, I train it because it's a good workout with good people, and it's incredibly subtle and difficult to make work even in a controlled training environment. Pretty much the opposite of what someone genuinely concerned with self defense would want.

For self defense (which I am not interested in), something brutal and simple will be better. In fact, the brutal-er and simpler the better. Learn how to get hurt badly and still keep going for defense. Practice groin and throat strikes for offense.

Judo is much simpler than aikido, but not hugely brutal. Still, if I were suddenly required to try and defend myself with some aspect of my martial arts training (unlikely), I'd be much more likely to call on my judo than my aikido.

Focus on practicality in martial arts is kind of boring, and is largely irrelevant for most people unless we're talking about boosting confidence. And then, best not let your confidence convince you that violence isn't likely to hurt or kill you.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#156

Post by pluma »

wbl wrote: post #154
pluma wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Allied involvement in WW2 never was about the holocaust. In fact, the full extent of the holocaust only became apparent after WW2 as Allied soldiers had liberated the concentration camps and discovered the paperwork. Also don't think that anybody in WW2 cared about the Jews. There are enough stories about Jewish refugees being rejected at borders and sent back to face certain death because nobody believed them or…

My grandmother didn't give a damn about that when the Canadians showed up. And Hitler's plans for Poland were comparable to the Shoah: 1/3 dead, 1/3 slaves, 1/3 peasants.

Isn't that basically what I said?

> annihilation for most of Eastern Europe (because the Nazis wanted that territory as "lebensraum", i.e. living space, meaning the existing population had to go)

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#157

Post by agentultra »

cyberferret wrote: post #46
jbooth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, that's a bullshit point of view. For the japanese military in WWII, rape was normal. Butchering civilian populations wholesale was normal. The Americans and British did not play by those rules, even though we did a lot of killing. This was not two equivalent evils. http://foxtalk.tistory.com/98

Perhaps not complete bullsh!t. Both my parents were in their early teens in Malaysia during the Japanese invasion and subsequent occupation. The both lived near (different) POW camps, and yes, they both agreed that the treatment of the British & Aussie POWs in those camps by the Japanese guards was brutal. But they both say that when the roles were reversed and the Allies took back Malaysia, the treatment by Allied s…

Shigeru Mizuki's epic manga, Showa, recounts much of his history serving in the Japanese military. He doesn't seem sympathetic to the Imperialist propaganda and points out many of the atrocities committed on both sides. It was eye-opening for me since much of the history of the war that I know is British/North American and highly skewed.

These stories are worth retelling... again and again.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#159

Post by dfox »

blahi wrote: post #76
hoodoof wrote: post #4

Related but at a tangent - after a lifetime of interest in karate I came to realise that most of the stuff taught at karate is not practical. Katas and karate punches and kicks - most of this better thought of more as dancing or ceremonial. A bit like Tai Chi - except that Tai Chi claims no real world martial value. The myth remains however of karate being great self defence training. Our local karate club is packed…

This is not true at all. Your life-long interest in karate apparently includes 0 practical knowledge. I doubt you have even watched a youtube video from a karate tournament. The modus operandi in karate is "Immoblize your enemy as fast as possible". Immobilize in this context means kill or knock out and ASAP means instantly. There is nothing more vicious out there than Kyokushin.

It is my understanding that there are two ways of how karate is taught, as a sport and as a practical martial art, with majority of clubs being the former case.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#160

Post by lgieron »

cjslep wrote: post #117
bbotond wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation. The book looks quite interesting. But that still doesn't explain why the armies of Western nations seemingly committed less and less serious atrocities. Or is that just an illusion because "history is written by the victors"?

Ugly points in the USA's history: Trail of Tears. Slavery. Battle of Blair Mountain. Japanese Internment. Kent State. Jim Crowe. Abu Gahrib. Guantanamo. Drone Strikes. Global Surveillance. History is written, there's just more eye-catchy things to get distracted over. Game of Thrones. Brexit. Reality TV. Concerts. Drugs. Sex. Food. Cars. Video Games.

Add colonialism (The Phillipines, Central/South America) and assasinations of a bunch of inconvenient leaders of sovereign states.
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