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Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

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Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#151

Post by contingencies »

digi_owl wrote: post #58
URSpider94 wrote: post #16

The e-bike situation in China is very different from the US. These are people who are moving UP from human-powered bikes, or walking, to their first vehicle -- not buying them so that they can leave their car at home and feel the wind in their hair. Here's a photo of a very typical Chinese e-bike: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-El... As you can see, it has a second seat in the back for a pa…

On that note, i ran into a kickstarter on one that was styled more like a motorcycle than a typical bicycle. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/782844499/the-super-73

There are full ride-on motorbike-style e-bikes here in China already. I've seen them carry two people on the street here with very fast acceleration. They are silent and dangerous. See for example: http://auto.big5.anhuinews.com/system/2005/04/14/001238792.s... http://news.ddc.net.cn/newsview_40737.html http://auto.china.com/zh_cn/life/more/11036827/20091022/1567... http://tech.hexun.com/2012-08-23/145064681.html This one from the US can apparently top 315km/h: http://www.gq.com.tw/gadget/auto/content-22655.html Here's one from Japan http://auto.sina.com.cn/motuoche/2015-04-10/03281422633.shtm... and another from Yamaha https://tw.autos.yahoo.com/news/yamaha-pes1%E9%9B%BB%E5%8B%9...

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#152

Post by chillwaves »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #105
DigitalJack wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really like to hear the rationale for downvotes, just because it's surprising to me.

People downvote stuff when they dislike the implications of something even if it's true, actually especially if it's true. As to your point, a friend of mine has an electric motorcycle. He said that it's silent is scary because in traffic cars don't notice he's there. He has to always be on guard for people merging into his lane.

The idea that people will hear you on a motorcycle and that will protect you is absurd.

The only way to ride safe is to ride as if cars do not see you.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#153

Post by fludlight »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #46
goldmouth wrote: post #42

Does anybody know of a good, complete, ebike conversion kit for an older trek mountain bike? I have a 4.4 mile round trip commute but I don't really want to spend $1000+ , plus I'm pretty diy.

Mr Money Mustache recently posted a writeup for a conversion for about $1000. I think you could do the same conversion for less if you source your kit and battery cheaper- these same kits sell for less on ebay. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/05/25/recipe-for-a-badas...

AliExpress (Alibaba for b2c) has a better selection and is generally cheaper than ebay but shipping is literally the slow boat from China.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#154

Post by URSpider94 »

Kadin wrote: post #123
URSpider94 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A co-worker of mine is an e-bike fanatic who builds his own hardware. He has street bikes that will go up to 40 mph. (He also does a massive trail ride on his regular MTB almost every morning, and road bikes on the weekends). Once or twice, he did the commute into work using Strava as his speedo ... needless to say, he got some fairly negative feedback when he accidentally claimed the KOM (king of the mountain) on a…

> He has street bikes that will go up to 40 mph. In my state that's a motorcycle, and illegal to ride on the street without a license plate and insurance. It'll be the same way most everywhere soon, I expect.

Probably true where I live, too -- but first a cop would have to (a) care, then (b) notice, then (c) actually catch him in the act of exceeding the speed limit ...

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#155

Post by khedoros »

u801e wrote: post #131
khedoros wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just…

> there are busy streets without bicycle lanes The real problem is that the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motor vehicle to travel side by side with the motor vehicle remaining in the same lane. When a bicycle lane is added despite that, it leads to a bicycle lane that's too narrow and vehicles will pass without leaving sufficient clearance (at least 3 feet). > (or even sidewalks) Riding on the sidewalk isn…

> The real problem is that the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motor vehicle to travel side by side with the motor vehicle remaining in the same lane.

If that were true, it would be the real problem. As it is, even though there is space, cars frequently ride the shoulder. Most of the streets around here are pretty wide.

> Mixing unpredictable pedestrian traffic with cyclists is not safe

A problem, in theory...but not much of one with the low volume of foot+bike traffic around here. People here love their cars.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#156

Post by URSpider94 »

cr1895 wrote: post #38
URSpider94 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, e-bikes are an odd tweener. They don't mix well on bike paths if you're bombing along at 20 mph, and in a lot of places people still just don't feel safe riding anything with two wheels on public roads. I don't see a lot of people who aren't already comfortable cycling to work (though maybe preferring to get there faster and with less sweat), going out and buying an e-bike.

E-bikes have become increasingly popular in the Netherlands, where they share the cycle paths just fine with conventional cyclists. (the mopeds and scooters that blast along the same paths recklessly are another story, however)

Yeah, the Netherlands is really a cyclists paradise. I can't believe that they screwed it up by allowing motorscooters on the bike paths!

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#157

Post by jean_claude »

nl wrote: post #147
rzt wrote: post #6

Pretty serious MTB/cyclocross racer here that's done a lot of trailbuilding and trail advocacy: a lot of dudes are scared that offroad ebikes are going to kill access to hard-won trails. It's a not-unfounded fear as motorized bikes are pretty dang close to motorcycles in most people's eyes. That said, I'd love to have an ebike! I have a 26 mile one-way commute (that's a 30 minute train ride) but every once in a while…

I'm a road cyclist, and one of the most fun things I've ever done was racing an e-bike up a long (~8km) climb. E-bikes here are limited to 250W, which made it pretty fair. He'd blast the flatter parts, and I'd try to hang on, and then on the steeper parts the extra weight of the ebike slowed him so I'd catch up again. Made me want to get one. I agree with your point about MTB versions

I used to regularly troll the semi-serious club rides on my recumbent, beating them on the flats, crushing them downhill, and pedaling like mad to keep up on the uphill battles. Just me, no motor onboard. But I've been thinking about buying one of those pedal assist e-bike rear wheel kits and putting it on my folder for commuting to work on recovery days rather than drive. They look dead simple, just need to make a bracket for the reaction arm and battery pack. Also, much cheaper than a decent quality e-bike would cost (new).

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#158

Post by sliverstorm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #111
khedoros wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just…

Meh. The streets of Beijing are even busier, the motorist even more aggressive, most of the bike lanes have become parking for cars, and it still seems to work.

Hard to imagine they could be more aggressive. Ever had an F-150 try to run you over, or aim for your head with his mirror?

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#159

Post by randallsquared »

Rumudiez wrote: post #40
pm90 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it would work in the US. Such models might replace the gasoline powered vespas that a small minority of people use. But a car is central to the lifestyle of most Americans: you go to work, get groceries etc. That said, the more bicycle looking ebikes... I am very tempted to get one. They can be a fun way to explore the neighborhood. But I would still need a car for commuting to work.

> But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easily carry over a week's worth of groceries to cook three meals per day for two people in one trip on my motorcycle. I ride to work every day of the year in Seattle . It's kind of like, you know, living in pretty much any other country in the world where cars are…

There are three people in my household. Between us, we drink 30-40 (depending on the week) 2L bottles of soda a week, as well as a couple of 12-packs of soda cans, maybe an 8-pack of gatorade/powerade, and 15-20 half liter bottles of water. Food is not the largest part of what we bring back from the store.

There are a lot of opportunities lost when you can't carry more than, well, you can personally carry. The "white cheddar mac & cheese" brand that everyone in the house likes as a meal base is on sale? With a car, I can easily choose to just buy 40 of them to throw under the counter to last us for the next two months. Without a car, I can't take advantage of sales like that.

With a car, I can decide to suddenly throw clothes in a suitcase and drive to Florida or Delaware (I live about halfway between those). Without a car, such things would have to be planned well in advance.

With a car, I can drive 3 hours to Atlanta to pick up a monitor arm with my two friends in the car for company.

With a car, I can go to the home improvement store and pick up lumber so my friend can build a nice gaming table for D&D days.

Is a car a luxury? Sure, from the perspective of 1920. So are 4K screens and guest bedrooms and mini-fridges and king-size beds and neighbors whose walls are not your walls, but that's not a reason to feel as though people should reject any of those things.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#160

Post by IIAOPSW »

I'm an American living in China and I used to own one of these. Here are my thoughts that I wrote down a while ago:

Why e-bikes are the next big thing

Like a car, they offer cheap on-demand transit to your exact destination. Unlike a car they do not support long distances, heavy loads or more than 2 people, but often those features are not needed by the urban commuter. Furthermore they lack many of the drawbacks of a car; getting stuck in traffic, the need for parking, the need for insurance, licensing requirements, high fuel requirements etc. Furthermore an e-bike is a signifigantly smaller investment than a car. Having it lost, stolen or damaged poses less of a personal risk to your finances. Unlike a classical bike, e-bike's do not require the user to be in shape or even exert effort to operate. Thus we see that in the personal transport market, e-bikes represent the best of both worlds for the urban commuter. We can see proof by demonstration that in the right conditions they can be enormously popular (China). Why haven't they taken off all over the world yet?

1. Topography. They are generally not powerful enough to go up steep hills. Sadly this rules out San Fransisco which would otherwise be quick to pick up on an eco-friendly trend.

2. Weather. In the cold winter with icy roads these vehicles are unpleasant to drive. A 40 km/hr wind chill on top of 0 degrees will make you sick. The Chinese have invented a sort of bike apron/jacket that helps with this but although it is an unfashionable solution. For this reason the bitter North East and flat-but-frigid Mid West probably wont take to them (ruling out the otherwise perfect market of New York).

3. Regulation. These vehicles neither qualify as motorcycles nor bicycles and thus are often ambiguous or de facto illegal in many parts of the states.

I think point 3 is a huge mistake. If the US is serious about green technologies, deregulating e-bikes would be a huge boon.

Further thoughts: People initially think e-bikes are unsafe. That is because of historisis. If e-bikes developed before cars then most traffic would be e-bikes for the practical reasons cited. If most traffic were e-bikes then they would be seen as enormously safe. In general they do not have the momentum to seriously damage pedestrians or other e-bike users. It is actually cars that are the dangerous vehicles. Furthermore if most traffic were e-bikes then the throughput of a given road would go up because about 4 to 5 e-bikes can easily drive in the same space currently used by a car. This effect is partially canceled by the fact that e-bikes are slower than cars, but within a city driving speeds are only about 30-50 km/hr anyway. The amount of parking space available in the city would also go up for similar reasons.

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