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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#151
Escalate to HR? That's exactly what I did.

Jeff is spinning his typical BS. My boss was abusive, drove off %70 of the team and was dealing drugs to other employees in the PacMed garage. He lied to me many times, and I started documenting it.

I went to HR about it, trying to get support so I could transfer out to a team at AWS, where I knew the manager and he had offered me a job.

The HR person assured me that everything that I told her would be kept confidential. She insisted I tell her what was going on with my boss, and thus why I wanted to leave. I did tell her, and she then turned around and told my boss all of it. (I didn't tell her he was dealing drugs, I actually felt physically vulnerable to him because he had a violent temper-- his training was to be a prison guard and that's what he wanted to be before somehow he was hired at Amazon to manage programmers despite having difficulty even with simple things like spreadsheets and Excel.)

The HR at Amazon is an organization that is a big part of the problem. After she told my boss they started coming up with sudden complaint about my performance and scheduled a meeting with the HR person.. who then talked bout the things I had told her in confidence, in front of my boss (though I knew he already knew) as if there had never been any reason for me to expect confidence.

Also, I worked with Jeff Bezos on enough occasions that he knew who I was, and would say hello by name in the hallway. The idea that i could have gone to him directly with a complaint about my boss is asinine in the extreme. He would have passed it on to HR and it would have been the same thing.

He might have cared about the drug dealing thing ,but only because it put the company at risk.

The lack of empathy, and the rest of the employee hostile corporate culture ORIGINATES with Jeff Bezos. HE is the source and the cause and to him -- and this is a libertarian speaking-- everyone's existence is the sum total of the money they make him.

In fact, I think Jeff Bezos is a pathological liar and a psychopath. He's very charming, heartless and able to fake warmth. Clearly he has had PR training too. But he's the evil at the core of Amazon.

I've had extensive dealings with Microsoft and Apple and other big companies-- none were any where close to as toxic and heartless as Amazon. Jeff really sees people as resources to be exploited and could not care less about employee development, or retention.

In fact, the back stabbing, competitive nature that makes it such a toxic environment is designed in some sort of "survival of the fittest" delusion-- the product is regularly sacrificed (and amazon.com is pretty much a joke how broken it is-- still is, in fact) as a result.

You win at Amazon by playing politics, not by being good at your job.

PS-- why was I stupid enough to go to HR? I've worked mostly for startups, and it was the job previous to this that was my first real experience with an HR "department" which was one person, who was damn good, and exceptional at mediation and conflict resolution, full of integrity and trustworthy. I didn't have experience at large companies to know that HR was mostly filled with drama addicted flunkies.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs." Having met at least 50+ people in HR who aren't what like you say, i'm going to call complete bullshit on this. I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :) The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe the…

Found the HR rep

What is this, reddit?

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#153
post #68

Sounds like Bezos is just doing damage control. The original article is somewhat interesting but hardly novel. I've never talked to a single person who worked at Amazon who had anything positive to say. You have recruiters recruiting for Amazon who are basically saying, "Do not work there." They are being paid on commission to get you to work there and they're telling you what a horrible place to work it is, killing…

And yet Amazon (3.4) rates comparable on Glassdoor to many other important technology companies, including: Oracle (3.3), Yahoo (3.5), HP (3.3), IBM (3.1), eBay (3.5), Tesla (3.4), Dell (3.4), Cisco (3.7). That's with 5,800+ reviews. Something doesn't add up.

Yeah, one thing is, negative reviews on Glassdoor seem to get killed.

I reviewed Amazon negatively, and of course it's no longer there.

I don't know if Glassdoor is doing like Yelp is alleged to be doing, but I've seen this with other companies as well, where the negative reviews get spiked.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs." Having met at least 50+ people in HR who aren't what like you say, i'm going to call complete bullshit on this. I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :) The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe the…

Ok, let's play pedantic DannyBee. >I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :) >The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe they weren't performing as well as they think, so they blame the system. We're gonna need a source for that too! Or wait, were yo…

"We're gonna need a source for that too! Or wait, were you discrediting one opinion with another one?"

I said "i've met". I never claimed it was anything else? Unlike you, who flat out stated 99% of HR ....

You know what, it's not worth having this discussion with you. Given your responses here and elsewhere, you come off as very abrasive and not a person i'd want to work with.

But please, keep going on through life believing it's everyone else.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Amazon (3.4) rates comparable on Glassdoor to many other important technology companies, including: Oracle (3.3), Yahoo (3.5), HP (3.3), IBM (3.1), eBay (3.5), Tesla (3.4), Dell (3.4), Cisco (3.7). That's with 5,800+ reviews. Something doesn't add up.

It depends on the team and department in every company. You can always find one or two terrible anecdotes.

Does 300 people count as more than "one or two" terrible anecdotes? Cause thats how many were in the group that were having a miserable time when I was at Amazon... it was a significant proportion of the engineers at HQ at that time, possibly %60.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#156
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you're not under contract, you might as well find out for yourself if you like it or not.

It's getting to the point where having Amazon on your resume is a negative, though.

I mean, Amazon is not, say, RealNetworks. Real has that reputation for me if you've been there longer than a year. If you've been at Amazon for years, I'm going to dig in but I'm not going to automatically assume it's a negative like I will with Real. It's on the cusp, but not an automatic thing.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#157
post #18

For years I've had an academic interest in alternative religions. (As an atheist, I find them endlessly fascinating, as it lets you see more of how the dominant religions came to be.) One of those most interesting things I've come across related to that was the ABCDEF: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html It was put together decades ago by a pagan who wanted to help people see the difference between people who were up…

When I worked at Amazon I felt it was very cultish. "Today is day one!" and the BS like door desks (which cost more than actual desks but give the "we're a startup!" mentality boost.)

Looking on your list a surprising number of factors are much higher for amazon than for other, better jobs I've seen.

It is very much a cult. Microsoft had a bit of cultism in the 1990s (Billg was infallible, etc.) and another company I've worked for since tried to be a cult...

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#158

I'm actually pleased with Mr. Bezos' response. He doesn't deny any of the stories in the article, and he doesn't try to explain any of them away. His attitude strikes me as one of a problem-solver and one who cares about his company's reputation. I can't recall the last time I heard the CEO of a large company say publicly, "if you've been treated this way, reach out to me personally."

It's a lie. I knew him well enough when I worked there that I could have reached out to him personally and he would have known who I was. This is all by design.

He couldn't care less about employees. He does care about the reputation of the company, of course, because it's important for his net worth.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe workers could come together to build such a structure...somewhere they could come together to negotiate their conditions of employment...

What a revolutionary idea! Seriously though, I wonder why humans tolerate the hierarchical structures so much. I am proponent of direct democracy and worker cooperatives but curiously enough, to many people the idea seems wrong.

Just about every human endeavor out there tends toward hierarchal structures - ones that do not are statistical outliers, and even then it's questioned whether all that's happened is that the hierarchy is implicit rather than explicit.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#160
post #32

Jeff Bezos is definitely the new Steve Jobs.

Jobs was a good guy who, under it all, had engineering skill and design chops. He was compassionate and intelligent. Jobs built a great company that makes real profits by selling real products.

Bezos is a psychopath, a hack who only cares about manipulating the situation in his favor. He has built a shell of a retailer whos only profitable product is its own stock.

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