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Quadratic Voting (2014)

ericposner.com

141–150 of 156 posts

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#141
post #43

It seems important to distinguish between actually voting, where everyone votes or has a chance to vote (at near-zero cost), and lobbying for individual legislation, where only the very highly-motivated "vote", at high cost. In the latter case (lobbying), most people seem to believe that small groups exert too much power over the process. But that's entirely because the majority have essentially zero influence. If so…

People will be more likely to vote in the first place because they can exert greater influence over the outcomes they care about (say, gay marriage). Once in the voting booth, they can use marginal votes against things they oppose but less passionately (say, farm subsidies). Of course, there are complex design issues--just how much should people vote about, and should a representative system be used instead. But on balance QV should motivate people to vote more not less.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#142
post #50

Their startup: http://collectivedecisionengines.com/ seems to give decision makers X units of currency and then refund them the average outlay. It seems like it would have failure modes in communities w/ transient populations. As in, if you give me 100 units, I'll buy 10 votes and know that I at least voted as much as I could. But in conditions where you have a fixed community it could work well. Clearly in the real…

If a Koch brother really wants to use up $40 billion on voting, he could put 200,000 votes on a single issue. If everyone opposes his position, he could be easily outvoted by a small town of low-income people casting a couple votes each for a few dollars. They would also get nearly all his money.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#143

If this was implemented, it seems like the best strategy for an interest group would be to spread their funds over as many voters as possible. I wonder what kind of complications that would cause?

Existing laws that prohibit people from bribing others to vote their way would be sufficient to block this behavior. So would the secret ballot.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#144
post #108

pas on vote buying, linear vote buying is bad according to the same theory that predicts QV is good. The only equilibrium under linear vote buying is that the single most intense (or wealthiest) individual has her way at everyone else's expense. This intuition seems to underly much of the discussion here, but only applies when vote buying is linear. The logic, as cwp pointed out, is Tullock's. So while QV is much bet…

This is assuming that quadratic voting isn't really linear voting. Participants in a process like this aren't "honest" they can't be counted on to follow the rules. In a QV system one can bypass the quadratic penalty by buying people's votes directly for a small premium.

Think how hard this would be in real life, plus it's illegal to buy votes, and impossible given the secret ballot.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just explained why spending $1 billion on votes won't affect the outcome of politics, in the other sentence of my post, that you didn't quote. That's part of the reason the cost of votes is nonlinear in this scheme.

You didn't explain anything, you only provided a cryptic analogy.

Don't you have your square roots memorized? 31600 is approximately the square root of a billion. The U.S. population is about 316 million.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#147
post #50

Their startup: http://collectivedecisionengines.com/ seems to give decision makers X units of currency and then refund them the average outlay. It seems like it would have failure modes in communities w/ transient populations. As in, if you give me 100 units, I'll buy 10 votes and know that I at least voted as much as I could. But in conditions where you have a fixed community it could work well. Clearly in the real…

If a Koch brother really wants to use up $40 billion on voting, he could put 200,000 votes on a single issue. If everyone opposes his position, he could be easily outvoted by a small town of low-income people casting a couple votes each for a few dollars. They would also get nearly all his money.

That is quite true, the redistribution on the backend after the vote would be amazing. :D

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't explain anything, you only provided a cryptic analogy.

Don't you have your square roots memorized? 31600 is approximately the square root of a billion. The U.S. population is about 316 million.

That is the point of the software!

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, if we've already created a system where buying votes is accepted, why would I buy 1000 votes for 1000^2 money, if I might as well pay 1000 uninterested people 2 money each to vote the same way as I?

Buying votes is not accepted. Using the system would be accepted, but not buying separately. Why couldn't we create a norm where buying outside the system is just as punished then as buying outside the system is now?

I'm not saying we couldn't, just that it would be harder. Right now votes are thought of as something inherent to a person, similar to a soul. If votes becomes something people speculate in buying, isn't it likely that they'd start to speculate more than that?

Then again, it does sound like an interesting system to try, but maybe to be used for smaller decisions and groups first.

Re: Quadratic Voting (2014)

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying votes is not accepted. Using the system would be accepted, but not buying separately. Why couldn't we create a norm where buying outside the system is just as punished then as buying outside the system is now?

I'm not saying we couldn't, just that it would be harder. Right now votes are thought of as something inherent to a person, similar to a soul. If votes becomes something people speculate in buying, isn't it likely that they'd start to speculate more than that? Then again, it does sound like an interesting system to try, but maybe to be used for smaller decisions and groups first.

I couldn't agree more. Lots of social institutions would have to be built up around it to make it work. That is why we are starting on a small scale with market research.
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