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Fear of Apple

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Re: Fear of Apple

#141

Post by code_duck »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #113
alexashka wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's really disputing that the App Store needs revision in a number of areas (discovery, refunds, trials, etc) It's a hard problem because curation is a hard problem. It is not unique to the app store - take a look at android's store or frankly, any online store that offers a wide array of products - curation is hard. I'm sure they're working on it. A time of fewer but higher quality apps may be coming - but then…

Well, that's... a point of view. I'm unconvinced it's an accurate one. Firstly, the app model is pure genius. It means Apple gets an army of developers producing software for Apple with zero health/unemployment/other benefits, no up-front advance payments, and a limited curation cost. The risks are entirely on the developer side. There is no downside for Apple. Secondly momentum creates the usual extreme power law, w…

> Firstly, the app model is pure genius. It means Apple gets an army of developers producing software for Apple with zero health/unemployment/other benefits, no up-front advance payments, and a limited curation cost.

How is that different than say, people writing for the Commodore 64 or Windows and selling it with no connection to the company? Do you mean the alternative would be for apple write all of the software available on iOS? I don't see how third parties writing software for an operating system or device would be considered an amazing new idea.

Re: Fear of Apple

#142

Post by firloop »

superuser2 wrote: post #116
firloop wrote: post #56

This article summarizes the epitome of my experience as an Apple developer. I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store. The App Store feels opaque and like a black box where I submit builds with little to no feedback or control. I get paid when Apple decides, and could be eradicated from the App Store at a moment's notice. I realized early on that being featured by Apple was unlikely, and have adopted a sustai…

> I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store Then you probably committed fraud when creating your Developer account. Apple requires you to certify that you are at least 18 years old in order to join the developer program. So does every other means of receiving USD payment on the internet (Paypal, Stripe, BTC exchanges, etc). I hesitate to say it's impossible, but the system is set up in such a way that if you…

My iTunes Connect account is in a different name than my own for the time being. For my Stripe account, an email from a guardian indicating consent is enough for me to have my account under their terms. I appreciate your concern and I have looked into all of these areas.

Re: Fear of Apple

#143

Post by chc »

engendered wrote: post #130
engendered wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had this happen numerous times, and the rapidity of the downvotes really makes me think it's an automated system -- that now that slowbans and hellbans are pretty widely known and rightly reviled, the mods just flag you and periodically you get a rapid downvote barrage. I guess it is supposed to make me feel insecure about my opinion or something.

This just dropped by -4 in a ten second span (edit: moments after another -4), essentially confirming the suspicion. Do the moderators of HN have any comprehension of how completely incompetent they are at what they're doing? HN today is the perfect example of a profoundly squandered opportunity, and it literally gets worse by the day. It has gone from must-visit to "meh...everything else is exhausted". But I get a l…

> This just dropped by -4 in a ten second span (edit: moments after another -4), essentially confirming the suspicion.

If I made a comment along the lines of "I think the HN moderators hire hitmen to kill commenters they don't like," that would probably get downvoted very quickly and very harshly. This would not be proof that the moderators put hits on commenters — it just shows that baseless conspiracy theories are not very popular here.

Re: Fear of Apple

#144

Post by LiweiZ »

Spooky23 wrote: post #103
firloop wrote: post #56

This article summarizes the epitome of my experience as an Apple developer. I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store. The App Store feels opaque and like a black box where I submit builds with little to no feedback or control. I get paid when Apple decides, and could be eradicated from the App Store at a moment's notice. I realized early on that being featured by Apple was unlikely, and have adopted a sustai…

Your experience is the price of admission to gain access to a global audience. The low barrier to entry is why you're fighting for pennies. Twenty years ago when I was in high school, I worked at CompUSA. They sold a lot of software in their day... in my region of the country, 40% of software sold passed through our store's door. To sell software at CompUSA or similar retailers, you needed to interface with a publish…

I think it's better for everyone in this business to have some understanding of how channel works and profits to have a more macro perspective of this issue. Channels usually have huge power and it's one of the four P's (price, product, promotion, and place). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_mix

Re: Fear of Apple

#145

Post by mwfunk »

gress wrote: post #2

This piece ignores the obvious. These people aren't afraid of their own criticisms of Apple. They are afraid that their criticisms will be magnified and distorted by the press and used as the basis of hit-pieces, and that this will reflect badly on them. This isn't fear of Apple. It's legitimate fear of what the press will do with what they say.

Why the hell would someone downvote gress' comment? The article misrepresented the reason for Marco's regret, to use as evidence for its thesis. Marco regretted what he said because it was being used out-of-context to support a flood of stories in the press that he thought were BS not to mention the gazillion emails he was getting about it.

Now, I suppose someone could be reading this and thinking, "sure, that's what Marco wants everyone to believe, but really he's just scared of the Apple mafia." If you, a reader who downvoted gress, are thinking this as well, step back and really think about that statement for a second, and think about things like projection and assumptions and confirmation bias.

I guess I'm sticking up for Apple here, but really I'm sticking up for intellectual honesty. I love it when people criticize the utter living hell out of Apple, but for actual legitimate things. Opinions based on conspiracy theories, tribalism, or just plain making stuff up discredits real, authentic criticism that actually means something and that might actually result in positive change. This goes for any topic really, not just Apple stuff.

I'm not characterizing this particular article in that way- it seemed thoughtful and well-written, aside from misrepresenting Marco and possibly others. I'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt here that this was just a misunderstanding. It's more a response to people who have assumptions that are so entrenched that they would disbelieve Marco's own stated reasons for regretting what he wrote, because not believing him and assuming something more sinister better reinforces whatever much more dramatic narrative they've already imagined.

Re: Fear of Apple

#146

Post by conradev »

superuser2 wrote: post #116
firloop wrote: post #56

This article summarizes the epitome of my experience as an Apple developer. I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store. The App Store feels opaque and like a black box where I submit builds with little to no feedback or control. I get paid when Apple decides, and could be eradicated from the App Store at a moment's notice. I realized early on that being featured by Apple was unlikely, and have adopted a sustai…

> I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store Then you probably committed fraud when creating your Developer account. Apple requires you to certify that you are at least 18 years old in order to join the developer program. So does every other means of receiving USD payment on the internet (Paypal, Stripe, BTC exchanges, etc). I hesitate to say it's impossible, but the system is set up in such a way that if you…

> I'm 17 years old and a developer on the app store

I did this when I was 14. Except, technically, my dad was the developer. It's really easy to make that work, and it's completely legal.

Re: Fear of Apple

#147

Post by vacri »

serve_yay wrote: post #37
Animats wrote: post #22

There's a strange phenomenon if you make negative remarks about Apple on forums such as HN or Slashdot. They tend to be voted up shortly after posting. Then, about an hour later, a lot of downvotes come in. I've seen this several times, with a consistent response delay of about an hour. After the downvotes at one hour, more upvotes may come in; the downvote effort is a one-time event. Anyone else seeing this?

There are hardly ever trenchant criticisms of Apple here. It's the same ohhh they're too proprietary, form over function, their users are sheep, etc, etc. There are good criticisms of Apple to be made, but the crowd here almost never makes them.

'too proprietary' and 'low on function' are both good criticisms in context. What do you consider to be a good criticism on a developers' forum if "I can't access it" and "doesn't actually do much" don't count?

As for 'users are sheep' as a common criticism here, I think you might be projecting a bit.

Re: Fear of Apple

#148

Post by sehugg »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #88
shimfish wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that it seems entirely probable that there is no fix. What exactly are you suggesting that Apple could do to level the playing field any more?

There are a lot of ideas out there (and in the article) Apple could implement. Here's a few I remember off the top of my head: * Improve App Store search results * Remove the top lists and blunt the 'rich getting richer' effect the lists amplify * Put their share of App sales on sliding scale, so you only start giving Apple the full 30% after you've reached $X in sales

Also improve the review system. It's almost certain that if you don't beg for reviews using Appirater, you will get practically none.

And if you update the app, the reviews reset -- which gives developers an extreme disincentive to keep their app updated, especially during the long tail period.

Re: Fear of Apple

#149

Post by engendered »

chc wrote: post #143
engendered wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just dropped by -4 in a ten second span (edit: moments after another -4), essentially confirming the suspicion. Do the moderators of HN have any comprehension of how completely incompetent they are at what they're doing? HN today is the perfect example of a profoundly squandered opportunity, and it literally gets worse by the day. It has gone from must-visit to "meh...everything else is exhausted". But I get a l…

> This just dropped by -4 in a ten second span (edit: moments after another -4), essentially confirming the suspicion. If I made a comment along the lines of "I think the HN moderators hire hitmen to kill commenters they don't like," that would probably get downvoted very quickly and very harshly. This would not be proof that the moderators put hits on commenters — it just shows that baseless conspiracy theories are…

Indeed, that is one boorish tactic of making a banal, sycophantic comment. The use of a garbage strawman really put it into a higher echelon.

However I stick by my observation. The brain trust behind HN moderation, having moved on from their asinine slowbans and hellbans, have gone to something that they think is trickier. Only it's, again, hilariously naive.

Re: Fear of Apple

#150

Post by mooreds »

ableal wrote: post #129
matheweis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really does echo what Schneier said about us returning to a feudalistic society. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.ht... Although his context was for users, I think the same thing applies to developers.

Back in 2003, Tim Bray hit that nail: "Are You a Sharecropper?" https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePl...

Thanks for the link! Great advice for everyone building on corporate owned platforms today. Yes, sometimes it is the right way for your business to start or grow, but make that choice consciously, not in ignorance.
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