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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#141

Post by mwcampbell »

ds9 wrote: post #140
chroma wrote: post #71

Many are baffled that OS X is so popular among developers. Likewise, many OS X users don't understand why someone would deal with Linux on a laptop. Those who do this are committing the typical mind fallacy[1]. Not everyone has the same preferences. One might as well be confused that some people like vanilla more than chocolate. I think many commenters in this thread could benefit from taking a step back and remember…

Thanks for saying that. It's remarkable that so many writers will declare a subjective preference as if it were an objective fact ("$SOME_UI is so ugly!"). Although I also agree with "remembering just how unimportant this arguing is", I'll illustrate by providing a counterexample to the Fine Article's idea that OSX is "an aesthetically pleasing OS". My idea of an esthetically pleasing UI is one with text labels inste…

FWIW, I agree with you on UI aesthetics. And I like the ThinkPad's TrackPoint better than trackpads.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#142

Post by hrktb »

davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

Perhaps you should explain a bit your workflow:

- do you work on graphic files ? will you use Photoshop ?

- how do you communicate with your clients/peers ? (would you just refuse a MSWord or Excel doc for instance, if it didn't render properly ?)

- do you have to deal with specific hardware ? (for instance, Blackberry phones)

- do you have to debug websites or other apps on iOS devices, anything mac related ?

All of the above seem non trivial, while potentially critical depending on what you do. I think it would be interesting to know where you are on the spectrum.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#143

Post by amatheus »

cmiles74 wrote: post #57
fideloper wrote: post #34

"The problem goes deeper" Virtual machines are now more easy to use than ever. Your host OS matters less and less. Furthermore, Linux flavored OSes don't support the "secondary" applications we require that Macintoshes do - Microsoft Word/Excel, Photoshop...and working sound card drivers.

Kind of on the same riff as the article, it seems like tighter integration between virtual machines and the desktop environment could be another place where the Linux desktop could enjoy an advantage. This is an area that we're unlikely to see Microsoft or Apple touch, as it's so developer-centric. It's not hard to imagine what something like this might look like. QubesOS[0] is doing interesting things in this space,…

What kind of integration? At Desktop level VMWare Fusion is very integrated into OS X.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#144

Post by sanderjd »

winter_blue wrote: post #134
sanderjd wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so interesting! Your parent said "unrivaled hardware" and went on to give some examples of the types of things meant by that: frequent component updates, nice high-res displays, battery life, support, and form factor. (Left out the trackpad, which really is a huge differentiator.) You replied by questioning things like failure rates, lifespan, side by side component images, and resistance to heat, cold, dust,…

> Please do link me to a $1200 non-Mac laptop with a high-res 15" screen, thin form factor, and nice trackpad. The cheapest high-res/HiDPI/Retina 15" MacBook costs $1999, not $1200. The baseline 13" rMBP costs $1199 after the education discount though[1]. [1] By the by, if you order from the Apple Online Store in the US, you can get the student discount no matter what. There's no verification of any kind (like to pos…

Whoops, I did actually mean 13". But also: I did buy last year's 15" model new-in-box for $1200 - there seems to be a pretty fast price drop-off, perhaps because Mac buyers really do have an above average focus on latest-and-greatest.

Edit to add: My point is really not about the price but that taking away the "brand status" as a factor or even making it a confounding factor, Mac laptops completely own the "nice-for-user hardware" space.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#145

Post by zurn »

tomp wrote: post #42

For me, Macbook (1) is light, (2) has a trackpad more useful than a mouse, (3) lasts for hours, and (4) is reasonably performant (retina display, quad-core, 8GB ram, SSD). I use a terminal, a packet manager, and a browser, so the only thing I demand from an OS is (5) multiple desktops, (6) multitouch, and (7) getting out of my way (no need to tweak settings, compatible with USB/WiFi). If I knew I could get a similar…

Linux works pretty well on many Macbook models. Linus used an Air as his main machine last I heard.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#146

Post by octopus »

josephlord wrote: post #77

There are benefits in the develop and test on one platform (test again and) deploy on another. That way you naturally create portable software. Also the difference between the developer's desktop and the deployment machine may be significant even if both are Linux there might be differences between the libraries and utilities so using a Mac doesn't necessarily make it harder. Use what you are comfortable with. Having…

You can run GCC 4.9.0 side by side Clang just fine on OS X.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#147

Post by krakensden »

equalarrow wrote: post #135
davexunit wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really like the trends of laptop hardware these days, so my preference and yours differ greatly. I use hardware that's a few years old and is known to work well with fully free GNU/Linux operating systems. Shiny new tech (which usually requires proprietary firmware/drivers to function) doesn't appeal to me. There's this push to make laptops so unreasonably thin that they have to solder everything to the board…

I spent years with Linux desktops and laptops. Switched to Mac about 10 years ago. Of all my developer friends I know, not only have I had the least amount of problems with my Mac laptops, but - sorry for the cliche - things just work. The latest and greatest is nice and while I'm not obsessed with having the newest, I like using what's new. I spent a lot of time fighting the proprietary thing. It's a noble effort, b…

> after years of sub-standard drivers, laptops that don't turn on when you open them, cpu fans buzzing out of control, etc, etc, I'd rather spend my time doing things instead of screwing with things.

You left in '04, this nonsense ended in '06, '07. Partly because no one is really changing the hardware much, partly because we have first class support from Intel now.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#148

Post by jiggy2011 »

stcredzero wrote: post #121
jiggy2011 wrote: post #7

There is still plenty of software missing from Linux that you would want for the average web developer workflow. For example whilst there are graphical Git clients available, there's nothing as polished as SourceTree or Tower available. Same thing with database GUIs. Also anybody who works with designers is probably going to have to interact with .PSD files at some point and GIMP isn't always an adequate tool.

For example whilst there are graphical Git clients available, there's nothing as polished as SourceTree or Tower available. What's wrong with GitX-dev (rowanj fork)?

That seems to be OS X only.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#149

Post by GrinningFool »

harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

I think it's pretty specifically popular with developers in the start-up space.

I suspect the majority of developers (outside of this few percent in the startup space) continue to use Linux and/or Windows. They just don't go around writing blog posts that start out by presenting opinions about usability of other OS's as fact.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#150

Post by bunderbunder »

chroma wrote: post #71

Many are baffled that OS X is so popular among developers. Likewise, many OS X users don't understand why someone would deal with Linux on a laptop. Those who do this are committing the typical mind fallacy[1]. Not everyone has the same preferences. One might as well be confused that some people like vanilla more than chocolate. I think many commenters in this thread could benefit from taking a step back and remember…

Many are baffled that OS X is so popular among developers. . . I think many commenters in this thread could benefit from taking a step back and remembering just how unimportant this arguing is.

If you're someone who has taken an interest in making Linux a popular choice as a desktop OS, this subject is critically important. It's only natural to assume that one could learn a lot about what it takes to make a Unix-based operating system popular among desktop users by observing the example of the only Unix-based operating system to have become popular on the desktop market. Figuring out how it is that OS X is able to attract developers despite its (presumably) inferior developer experience is a closely related question.

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