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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#51

Post by CmonDev »

harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

"I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers" It is not until there is a reliable statistics report.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#52

Post by aerique »

tomp wrote: post #29
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

I only used Linux for a short while and that was when Ubuntu Unity was a very new thing, so I assume it got better now, but then it couldn't possibly compare to OSX virtual desktops; it was usable, but very annoying. Having said that, I need a terminal (iTerm2), a browser, and a packet manager (homebrew), and I'm happy. I assume build issues would happen on Linux too, and they would probably be harder to resolve (mor…

One of the nice things about Linux desktops is that you're not tied to the default window manager like you are in Windows and OSX. While Linux distros might have a default window manager (like your Unity example for Ubuntu) it is still easy to switch.

This allows developers to experiment with different paradigms with regards to the GUI, see for example the popularity of tiling WMs on Linux. (i3 has my preference, others swear by xmonad).

I know it is possible to change window managers for Windows and OSX as well but the experience is just not the same.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#53

Post by jrajav »

Missing a killer feature here, at least for me: High-DPI support. No environment on Linux deals with high-DPI adequately yet. Between that and the other big one mentioned in the article, multitouch trackpad support, there is simply no way I can compromise. There isn't really anything else tying me down to OS X, but those two are huge. They're the only major changes I've seen in my workflow and desktop experience in the past ten years aside from general performance.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#54

Post by famblycat »

pcunite wrote: post #39

I use Windows 7 to write for Linux. The real story here is that even developers don't want to write code in Linux for Linux.

I'm on Windows 7 and use a Linux VM, where I actually do all the development. I love the command line, but still haven't found a Linux GUI I'm as comfortable in as Windows. Ubuntu was getting close there for a while, but then they went to Unity, which I tried to like, but ended up pretty much loathing.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#55

Post by silverbax88 »

davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

I've used Linux, Windows and OS X.

I don't consider OS X to be a development environment for serious development. I do consider Linux and Windows to be real dev tools.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#56

Post by symmetricsaurus »

Theodores wrote: post #27
p4bl0 wrote: post #6

I'm not sure what to think of this blog post. Do anyone really recognize himself or herself in the described developers? It's not even about Mac OS X vs GNU/Linux, I'm not using any desktop environment on my computers (no Gnome, KDE, XFCE, …), my graphical environment is composed of a minimal windows manager and a small taskbar. I don't need anything else. I just checked and I don't even have a graphical file browser…

What is that 'minimal windows manager' and what is the benefit of it over Unity (which to me is a few icons down the left and a few icons + notifications in the top right)?

I cannot speak for gp but I use tiling window managers when I use Linux. Usually they do not work so well with desktop environments, or it to much effort to get them to work properly.

The big advantage of tiling vms is that you always use the whole screen area without having to only use maximized windows. You can easily split the screen into several areas where you can put windows. Another advantage is that they are usually keyboard driven so that it is possible to launch, close and arrange windows without using the mouse.

The one I like best is wmii, which has a brilliant column system combined with tags instead of workspaces(i. e. a window can have several tags instead of only one workspace). Nowadays I use i3 since it is a bit more modern but so far I find that the usability is not quite as good.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#57

Post by cmiles74 »

fideloper wrote: post #34

"The problem goes deeper" Virtual machines are now more easy to use than ever. Your host OS matters less and less. Furthermore, Linux flavored OSes don't support the "secondary" applications we require that Macintoshes do - Microsoft Word/Excel, Photoshop...and working sound card drivers.

Kind of on the same riff as the article, it seems like tighter integration between virtual machines and the desktop environment could be another place where the Linux desktop could enjoy an advantage. This is an area that we're unlikely to see Microsoft or Apple touch, as it's so developer-centric.

It's not hard to imagine what something like this might look like. QubesOS[0] is doing interesting things in this space, although their concentration is clearly on security and security researchers rather than developers (and definitely not the average end-user).

[0]: http://qubes-os.org/trac

Re: The desktop and the developer

#58

Post by dllthomas »

Theodores wrote: post #27
p4bl0 wrote: post #6

I'm not sure what to think of this blog post. Do anyone really recognize himself or herself in the described developers? It's not even about Mac OS X vs GNU/Linux, I'm not using any desktop environment on my computers (no Gnome, KDE, XFCE, …), my graphical environment is composed of a minimal windows manager and a small taskbar. I don't need anything else. I just checked and I don't even have a graphical file browser…

What is that 'minimal windows manager' and what is the benefit of it over Unity (which to me is a few icons down the left and a few icons + notifications in the top right)?

I don't know about the parent, but I use ratpoison. I still have notifications pop up (with notifications-daemon) but I don't have any screen space taken up with icons. I kind of find icons silly... don't sit around telling me what I can do, I configured my keymap, I know what's there and if I forget I can trivially ask! Speaking of keymaps, the way that ratpoison keys are set up is a huge win - no application can ever be expecting a key combo that I can't deliver, while I still have a deep tree of commands available with very few keystrokes.

What is the benefit of Unity for someone like me?

Re: The desktop and the developer

#59

Post by Jhsto »

Snoooze wrote: post #32
fit2rule wrote: post #24

If there were a Linux laptop with the same physical characteristics as my rMBP, I'd swap in a heartbeat. For me, its all about unibody. Screen quality. Trackpad touch and feel. Keyboard comfort. The rMBP fits the bill for all of these things - I'm NOT content with OSX as an operating system, however, this is just something I put up with (and since I run my Linux dev environment in a VM, big deal anyway). I'm certainl…

Yes, this article really fails to mention the superior build quality of the MPB, which I think is one of the biggest reasons they are popular

I really did look around at OEM laptops when I was deciding what to buy. I wanted a laptop which would run Unix, but besides of Dell I could not find any. I was afraid that Chromebook would not have provided the hardware I wanted and I did not to pay extra for Windows license, which I'd never use anyway. After that, I think there were still Lenovo Yoga 2, Samsung Series 9 and rMBP on my list. However, after reading articles about the laptops, I found that Lenovo had bad battery life and buying Series 9 or rMBP would basically pay me the same. At this point Apple's aesthetic product won my choice, given that Series 9 could have problems with Linux drivers and it still had the unused Windows license shipped with it.

So now I have Windows/Ubuntu on dualboot on PC and a Mac laptop. I feel like the Mac is basically the Unix I wanted, without the crappy window manager of Ubuntu. However, the single thing I've loved so far has not been a hardware or aesthetic manner, but rather how Mac opens windows as it boots up from where I left. I never even knew that was possible, but I feel like it has increased my productivity a lot.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#60

Post by dllthomas »

symmetricsaurus wrote: post #56
Theodores wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that 'minimal windows manager' and what is the benefit of it over Unity (which to me is a few icons down the left and a few icons + notifications in the top right)?

I cannot speak for gp but I use tiling window managers when I use Linux. Usually they do not work so well with desktop environments, or it to much effort to get them to work properly. The big advantage of tiling vms is that you always use the whole screen area without having to only use maximized windows. You can easily split the screen into several areas where you can put windows. Another advantage is that they are…

"Another advantage is that they are usually keyboard driven so that it is possible to launch, close and arrange windows without using the mouse."

It's strictly possible to do this in most non-tiling window managers. The key difference is that arranging windows with the keyboard is not just possible but significantly more practical.

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