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Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

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Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#141

Post by zmmmmm »

ekpyrotic wrote: post #14

Given its comparative geographical isolation, it makes sense for NZ to invest in it's digital economy. NZ has its own competitive advantages: (1) An educated population; (2) An English-speaking population (yes, this is an advantage. Regardless of the rise of the East, English is still the international language of business.) But, clearly, it has certain disadvantages. Geographical isolation is one of those. It is dif…

Paradoxically I'm not sure this is true at all. It turns out that the tyranny of distance can make software even harder to do than tangibles. Why? Because software is intimately driven by domain and end user requirements. It's just not possible to build the right stuff unless you're intimately in contact the people who need it. If you're sitting in NZ, you simply can't appreciate what the driving needs are in an economy 50 - 100 times as big. (Obviously I'm generalising here - there are a few domains where you can - but in general, looking across the vast expanse of the software industry). And it turns out that for those areas where you can do the software remotely - there are nations with billions of people who are seeing the same opportunity.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#142

Post by niels_olson »

throwawaymsft wrote: post #94
Varcht wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

The starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, and startup founders are temporarily not-yet-rich. Not having won isn't the problem, it's being satisfied and not playing the game which society shuns.

For most of those folks, temporary is going to prove to be a very long time.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#143

Post by EdwardDiego »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

It's refreshing to click on a headline in the form of a question and have the article explain why it's the right question to be asking, and not just following Betteridge's Law. I lived in New Zealand for about 5 or 6 years, and I saw huge numbers of people just living on welfare because they could - that's probably got a lot to do with low GDP. Normally, I would see that as a bad thing, but I think New Zealand's rela…

> I saw huge numbers of people just living on welfare because they could

Where were you living? The hardcore 'bludgers' are a minority of our welfare claimants.

Your portrayal of NZ strikes me as lopsided, considering we're working longer and longer hours : http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/7841749/No-rest-for-th...

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#144

Post by EdwardDiego »

zmmmmm wrote: post #141
ekpyrotic wrote: post #14

Given its comparative geographical isolation, it makes sense for NZ to invest in it's digital economy. NZ has its own competitive advantages: (1) An educated population; (2) An English-speaking population (yes, this is an advantage. Regardless of the rise of the East, English is still the international language of business.) But, clearly, it has certain disadvantages. Geographical isolation is one of those. It is dif…

Paradoxically I'm not sure this is true at all. It turns out that the tyranny of distance can make software even harder to do than tangibles. Why? Because software is intimately driven by domain and end user requirements. It's just not possible to build the right stuff unless you're intimately in contact the people who need it. If you're sitting in NZ, you simply can't appreciate what the driving needs are in an econ…

I code in NZ for a German company. We are very competitive on price compared to Germans, and very competitive on quality, compared to Indians. It's a happy middle ground.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#145

Post by EdwardDiego »

rudin wrote: post #112

Compared to Australia, New Zealand has a significant Maori / Polynesian population. If you combine a part of Australia with a part of Fiji, you would get similar mix of people and also a similar economic output to New Zealand. While this obviously doesn't explain all of it, it is important to consider the historical and demographics reasons as well.

That's racist as.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#146

Post by jessaustin »

gshubert17 wrote: post #17
ekianjo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Singapore is small, but sits athwart what has been, for hundreds of years, one of the busiest trading lanes on the planet. You might want to revise that sentence. Singapore was nothing 100 years ago. Wikipedia: Singapore ceased to be part of the British Empire when it merged with Malaysia in 1963. Singapore lost its hinterland and was no longer the administrative or economic capital of the Malay Peninsul…

Perhaps no revision is necessary. Singapore may have been nothing 100 years ago, but trade through the region has been busy for much longer. Hence when Singapore decided to develop, it looked to the preexisting trade patterns, and developed accordingly.

You seem to think it was quite simple. It was not.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#147

Post by dhughes »

JPKab wrote: post #24
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

It's refreshing to click on a headline in the form of a question and have the article explain why it's the right question to be asking, and not just following Betteridge's Law. I lived in New Zealand for about 5 or 6 years, and I saw huge numbers of people just living on welfare because they could - that's probably got a lot to do with low GDP. Normally, I would see that as a bad thing, but I think New Zealand's rela…

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

It's like that where I am in eastern Canada people go out smoke weed and drink every weekend if not every night!

Most have menial jobs just enough to get by with government assistance.

Yet everyone goes to Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Mexico every year and they make nothing. I can see how all-inclusive vacations became so popular.

I work with 20-year-olds who laugh if they are sent home at work for doing something wrong or if sent home due to some issue at work. A few have travelled all over Europe, Australia, South America yet make nothing as a salary I probably make four times what they do but can't see how they can afford it let alone me.

People are OK with you if you pay your bills nobody freaks out or looks down on you if you aren't super successful or even if you don't work full-time.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#148

Post by niels_olson »

antipodean wrote: post #19

Early-rising New Zealander here (it's 5am folks!). Bullet points for starters: 1. We are genuinely relaxed people, life is good, weather not too hot or too cold, food easy to get or grow, housing not horribly expensive, healthcare obtainable for all, education as close to free as we can make it and an overall low crime and corruption rate. So the majority of us go to sleep at night, overall, not worried about losing…

Hi, how expensive is it? I mean, I live in Southern California, and a 3 bedroom house 17 miles inland is upwards of $500,000. Checking real estate in NZ, houses can readily be found within blocks of the beach for $300,000 NZD (257,000 USD). Seems like a pretty good deal to me...

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#149

Post by thesimpsons1022 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #134
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of people, including plenty in SV, who believe the "47%" narrative and plenty more who have nothing good to say about "the poors".

I don't disagree, the dissonance comes from conflating source to truth. It was once expressed in the adage, "It must be true, I read it in the newspaper!" which of course has no such authority. And more importantly how it is true is important as well. My philosopher friends go on and on about this. Critical thinking is really helpful here, and yes there are many folks who are not critical thinkers.

what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#150

Post by wyclif »

Retric wrote: post #138
wyclif wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's…

As a % of GDP it's not actually that high. US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden. http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i... Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9 Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then th…

Still doesn't mean the poor are "hated", and it's still a vast amount of aid money.
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