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Is the shared economy racist?

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Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#141

Post by 2drew3 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #116
2drew3 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have done this. But I didn't have this experience to prove a point. Truthfully, I was mostly embarrassed that my suggestion wasn't working and immediately kicked into "find my friend an alternate place" mode. This entire post is not proof and completely anecdotal. I'm the first to admit that. But I hope this audience of entrepreneurs will think about issues like this.

Totally understand and I'm glad you wrote it. I'd like to see someone take on the challenge and come back with some proof. It seems from your account that Brandon had just set up a new AirBnb account - is it possible he was rejected because he had no history?

Possible. However, I recommended AirBnB to several Asian and Caucasian friends who never heard of it before (I'm from GA). Few just showed up in SF and booked same day with no problems. Not one bad experience, except this time. Fully acknowledge it's a limited sample. I'd like to see someone take the same challenge. I'd also like AirBnB data scientists to take a tough look.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#142

Post by potatolicious »

mhurron wrote: post #137
potatolicious wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit uncharitable. As a minority myself I do think Americans are a lot less racist than almost anyone else, by virtue of the fact that they're aware it exists . Call it white guilt if you must (though it's really a misnomer), but the fact that Americans are aware of their own racism makes the situation much, much more tolerable than in other places. Sure, covert racism is still a problem (a big one at that), but at…

Again, it depends on who they're talking to. My father-in-law won't talk much to the black propane truck driver when they deliver, he'll be out there making sure he got all he's charged for, but will complain endlessly about the nigger in the white house when it's the white driver. If you're white he'll tell you straight out that black people are incapable of advanced (like math) thought like a good white person, tha…

> "will only cause discomfort if they think they're in mixed company, not because they think it's wrong"

Yes, and that's a crucial difference. It will give them pause, or cause discomfort, because they know what they've just said is controversial. They know what they've just said is considered inflammatory, even if they themselves don't believe so.

This is, sadly, still a pretty leap beyond racially homogenous countries where all of the above is said without any awareness, because they're not even aware that disagreement exists on their point.

Your father in law no longer says these things to you because he knows you're on the other side. In many countries there is no other side, or the "other side" is so infinitesimally small that it's not in anyone train of thought while they spew their racist crap.

The mere presence of the "other side" gives hope that we might one day be further along than we are now.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#143

Post by Dewie »

ggchappell wrote: post #71
joesmo wrote: post #12

I don't think any of this is specific to AirBnb or Uber. What is described here is just plain racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America), especially in regards towards black people. The black friend in the story knew this and wasn't surprised. It's only surprising to people who think this is something of the past, as if somehow people have improved and this shouldn't…

> racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) A number of replies on this, but some have, I think, understated the issue. In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth. If racism is not seen to be a problem elsewhere, then it's largely because of ethnic homogeneity, not lack of racism. EDIT: It looks like I'm being misinterprete…

> In all honestly, I would say the U.S. is just about the least racist country on earth.

Based on what?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#144

Post by jack-r-abbit »

interpares wrote: post #109
wyager wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what's happening in the article at all. They're saying "Black people can't even drink Arizona tea", when in reality it was some guy drinking canned tea and knowingly trespassing so he could get arrested and cash in on the whole "Trayvon Martin had an Arizona tea" thing.

Step 1: Take issue with the sensational language of the original article, which is actually a collection of links to other news stories Step 2: Take one news story from said article and offer your own made-up explanation that's even more sensational. Ok then.

a collection of links to other news stories

You seem to be focused a lot on just the links and not the sensational language used as anchor text. Some of those stories are tragic. Others not so much. But if the point of that article was to list 21 times a black person was done wrong, they just as well could have given the actual article headline and not editorialized them. (If MotherJones was HN, those titles would have been moderated back to the original.) But that wasn't the point of the article. The list isn't quite as emotional without things like "can't wear a hoodie" and "can't play music at a gas station"

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#145

Post by wyager »

richardjordan wrote: post #79
wyager wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plain racism, something that's blatant all over America (some might say, it's what defines America) Have you ever lived in any continental European country? As someone who has spent about half their life in northern and western Europe and the other half in America, I can tell you with 100% confidence that Europeans are, in general, more xenophobic and racist than Americans.

Having grown up in the UK, lived in many countries around the world, and now been in the US for 15 years I dispute that. To fight anecdote with anecdote... Moving from the UK to the US I was shocked by the pernicious levels of institutionalized racism and the undercurrent of subtle racism. It's everywhere. There's certainly more of a veneer of tolerance here, which covers up a deep seated pathological racism, which i…

>Moving from the UK to the US I was shocked by the pernicious levels of institutionalized racism and the undercurrent of subtle racism. It's everywhere.

Would you please provide some examples?

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#146

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

cwaniak wrote: post #58
interpares wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because blacks are the ones responsible for how they're portrayed in the media.

Right, because if media portrayed Asians as living in slums, not working and dealing drugs, the public would just buy it in a second.

Time was, media portrayal of Asians was full of opium dens and squalid hovels.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#147

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #93
wtvanhest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tangent to your point, but if I remember correctly you are an attorney so I replied to you thinking you may no more about this, but even if it is racist, I doubt it is illegal. The fair housing act definitely doesn't protect short term renters staying in someone's home. "The Fair Housing Act applies to landlords renting or leasing space in their primary residence only if the residence contains living quarte…

I'm not a civil rights attorney and this is not legal advice, yada yada. You're referring to the exemption in 42 U.S.C. § 3603(b)(2), which says: "Nothing in section 804 of this title (other than subsection (c)) shall apply to . . . rooms or units in dwellings containing living quarters occupied or intended to be occupied by no more than four families living independently of each other, if the owner actually maintain…

[deleted]

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#148

Post by bsder »

jsonne wrote: post #17
rayiner wrote: post #7

There's a really simple explanatory mechanism, which is that even if an AirBnB host is bound by the same anti-discrimination provisions of the Civil Rights Act as a Hyatt, which is probably true, holding individual service providers accountable at that level is basically impossible. And to the extent that the "sharing economy" involves more individuals rather than businesses that can be sued, you will see more discri…

"The elimination of overt racial discrimination in private businesses is actually a wonderful example of concerted government action addressing a problem that according to free market theories shouldn't even have existed in the first place." Just to clarify Milton Friedman (A champion of free market economics) readily acknowledges racism. His argument is more along the lines of "in the long term racist businesses wil…

> His argument is more along the lines of "in the long term racist businesses will lose business to more accepting and diverse ones."

This assumes that the business differential exists and is large enough to matter.

I generally point out the lack of non-smoking bars/nightclubs before all the anti-smoking laws went on the books. Everybody agreed that non-smoking venues were a good thing, but non-smoking bars/nightclubs simply did not exist because the business differential was too high (smokers were so much more profitable than non-smokers that even though non-smokers outnumbered them nothing would cater to the non-smokers).

In the case of AirBnB, how much profit will someone give up by not serving ? Not much since most of these places are just getting a little bit of profit for renting out extra space.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#149

Post by jack-r-abbit »

Jun8 wrote: post #110
tw268 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you call a stereotype when it is backed by statistical data? The a priori belief that is most common is that no stereotypes are true. It's the polite thing to believe. But if you are of a certain analytical mindset, you can be argued out of it with enough data and anecdotal evidence from friends.

An oxymoron :-), i.e. stereotypes are by definition not backed by reliable data ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stereotype )

Not to split hairs... but your link defines Stereotype (noun): an often unfair and untrue belief that many people have about all people or things with a particular characteristic

Note the word often which does not mean always.

Often (adverb): many times : on many occasions

Always (adverb): at all times

So a stereotype, by definition, may be true... though often is not.

Re: Is the shared economy racist?

#150

Post by AldousHaxley »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #70
greendata wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you'd have to monitor it any more than you would monitor a business that puts up the rainbow flag on their window. I think the key here is to make it voluntary and not push it on people or make it a top-down standard. Its absence should not imply racism. Perhaps the flair could located on another site where users of the shared economy list themselves as "diversity friendly". If you see a listing with th…

That would depend on what it was interpreted to mean by users. I can easily see AirBnB hosts being under pressure to display the flair for fear of being assumed racist otherwise and being boycotted by even white people who don't want to endorse racism. It might also make it easier for a person who feels discriminated against to sue (if they don't display when others are). After all , you don't tend to see "blacks wel…

An easy solution to the problem would be to stop being a racist piece of shit, or else own up to it and accept the social consequences.

Another idea would be to have user ratings and feedback. I'm not sure if these services already do something like this, as I've never used them, but it could give hosts and drivers a means of rating their users so that they have some additional criteria by which to judge whether they want to loan their resources to a particular customer. That won't really solve the problem of new black customers who would have no prior rating, though. Maybe a criminal background check for customers is in order if people are really worried about being robbed or assaulted or some other nonsense. Of course that could cost time and money and could destroy the convenience factor of such services. A real bummer of a problem. I wish people were better.

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