No Girls Allowed • Hacker News Board

Re: No Girls Allowed

#141

Post by twoodfin » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:22 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #81

junto wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a daughter about the same age so it gives me a bit of insight. She doesn't get to watch TV. Her playgroup has no major bias towards pink for girls (actually even deliberate in their avoidance of such stereotyping). My wife secretly detests pink and girly stuff and is/was a tomboy at heart. We do not discourage or encourage any particular colour or style. There are no obvious factors in my daughter's life that…

> There are no obvious factors in my daughter's life that should bias her towards pink girly toys, yet she is absolutely obsessed with girly pink clothes and toys. > I honestly can't fathom it. Pink attraction seems to be built in. Like a moth to a flame. Yeah, that doesn't actually make any sense. Pink:blue::girl:boy is 100% artificial and one recent source has it the other way around: > For example, a June 1918 art…

Why ascribe this to "marketing"? If marketers could control what colors children want to wear, they'd change them every year to spur sales. Fashion isn't that predictable or controllable.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#142

Post by PeterisP » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:22 PM UTC

aestra wrote: post #114

spindritf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are considerably more open gay people today than 50 or 100 years ago. There are considerably more people having pre-marital sex, too. My pet theory is that with the increase of wealth and progress in technology, medicine, we can afford more risk including tolerance of risky behaviour. With things like the antibiotics, condoms, hormonal contraception, abortion (that is not likely to kill you) and just generall…

>There are considerably more people having pre-marital sex, too. No there isn't. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16287113/ More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, according to a new study. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past. “This is reality-check research,” said the study’s author, Lawrence Finer.…

It could be argued that the 1960ies and the changes in contracteption would be the major turning point in that area, and "women born in the 1940s" would be sexually active in exactly the 1960ies - so to properly validate the thesis that it's "the same as always", you'd need to compare modern habits with those people who were born in 1920s or earlier.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#143

Post by PeterisP » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:25 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #134

mseebach wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds have a slightly more complex role than just being conjured from thin air by marketing. Premarital sex is not, popular opinion to the contrary, a new discovery. In most societies we know of, however, men prefer to marry women who have never slept with anyone else. This creates a problem. Unmarried women are reluctant to have sex for fear that it will lower their ability to find a suitable husband, and as a re…

Except diamonds have zero resale value.

Well, they do have some value ( 1/3 of purchase price?), but who cares? The well marketed perception of "Diamonds are forever", that they don't lose their value ever, is a common consensus belief of the majority of diamond ring buyers. So what if it's not true - it achieves the intended goal anyway.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#144

Post by philwelch » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:25 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #88

spindritf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can probably make Coors sell better than Miller, or vice versa, OK. But that's a minor adjustment, even if worth a lot of money, not a massive change in behaviour like stopping half the population from discovering readily available video games.

It's not minor. What you should be considering is how many of the coors+miller drinkers would have drunk other things without the blanket advertising. A better example: Coke vs Pepsi. Two big brands. Lots of people will claim they choose whichever they drink without advertising making their mind up for them. Yet there are plenty of other colas out there, with very similar tastes, that hardly anyone drinks. This is lo…

It's worth pointing out that "marketing" includes such things as distribution and availability. If I really liked RC Cola, I would be disappointed often. But every corner store, fast food joint, and taco truck has at least Coke or Pepsi and often both.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#145

Post by twoodfin » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:25 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #134

mseebach wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds have a slightly more complex role than just being conjured from thin air by marketing. Premarital sex is not, popular opinion to the contrary, a new discovery. In most societies we know of, however, men prefer to marry women who have never slept with anyone else. This creates a problem. Unmarried women are reluctant to have sex for fear that it will lower their ability to find a suitable husband, and as a re…

Except diamonds have zero resale value.

I think "zero" is overstating it. And there are many products that lose a substantial fraction of their value as soon as they're purchased. Try reselling your mattress even if it's in near-perfect condition.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#146

Post by VLM » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #134

mseebach wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds have a slightly more complex role than just being conjured from thin air by marketing. Premarital sex is not, popular opinion to the contrary, a new discovery. In most societies we know of, however, men prefer to marry women who have never slept with anyone else. This creates a problem. Unmarried women are reluctant to have sex for fear that it will lower their ability to find a suitable husband, and as a re…

Except diamonds have zero resale value.

Doesn't matter; its the males opportunity cost. Have sex with as many single women as you want as long as you're willing to pay a months pay for a ring for each of them. Compared to modern child support payments that would be pretty cheap for some fun, although in context in the olden days it was a relevant issue.

There are of course other societal and cultural issues with an institutionalized "pay a woman for sex" scheme forced on all women. The issue with a street walker is not her chosen line of work which all women are also culturally forced into, the problem is she's undercharging the rest of the fiancee market, cheapening their "product". The union work rule is you get an expensive ring.

I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with those positions but just pointing out they exist.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#147

Post by im3w1l » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

junto wrote: post #37

spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

Having a daughter about the same age so it gives me a bit of insight. She doesn't get to watch TV. Her playgroup has no major bias towards pink for girls (actually even deliberate in their avoidance of such stereotyping). My wife secretly detests pink and girly stuff and is/was a tomboy at heart. We do not discourage or encourage any particular colour or style. There are no obvious factors in my daughter's life that…

Would it be all bad if she didn't want a pirate ship?

Re: No Girls Allowed

#148

Post by romanovcode » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #94

As a parent of two pre-school girls, this is a concern of mine. But in some ways I think this issue is worse for boys than girls. Girls are "allowed" (but not encouraged) to shop from the boys section. My daughters have and use some boys' clothing, toys, furniture, etc. But a boy wearing pink clothes or dancing or playing with dolls is setting himself up for extended teasing.

>As the daughter of two pre-school girls.. Wait, what? ))

Re: No Girls Allowed

#149

Post by davedx » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:28 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #92

junto wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a daughter about the same age so it gives me a bit of insight. She doesn't get to watch TV. Her playgroup has no major bias towards pink for girls (actually even deliberate in their avoidance of such stereotyping). My wife secretly detests pink and girly stuff and is/was a tomboy at heart. We do not discourage or encourage any particular colour or style. There are no obvious factors in my daughter's life that…

I think it's good if they have a balance. By all means wear pink party dresses and have tea parties with your dolls, but encourage them to climb trees, ride bikes and have rough and tumble time with their Dad [1] I always remember some research about when parents are watching their sons and daughters on a climbing frame. With the boys it was "See if you can reach the top!" and with the girls it was "Be careful!". Don…

Haha. Our 8 year old boy constantly climbs as high as he can get, then gets into trouble and panics. It drives my gf crazy. I wonder if our daughter will be the same when she's older... if she's anything like her dad, probably :)

Re: No Girls Allowed

#150

Post by mseebach » Tue, Dec 03, 2013, 3:28 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #134

mseebach wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds have a slightly more complex role than just being conjured from thin air by marketing. Premarital sex is not, popular opinion to the contrary, a new discovery. In most societies we know of, however, men prefer to marry women who have never slept with anyone else. This creates a problem. Unmarried women are reluctant to have sex for fear that it will lower their ability to find a suitable husband, and as a re…

Except diamonds have zero resale value.

They're not a liquid asset, but they very much have a non-zero resale value.