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Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

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Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#141

Post by VLM »

mathattack wrote: post #60
michaelochurch wrote: post #37

The issue with Coursera is the synchronous model. The material's good and the selection's excellent, and they deserve a lot of props for solving such a critical problem. College life is sanitized. Real World interjections are rare enough, at that age, to be handled case-by-case when it comes to extensions and such. Adult life is messy and complicated-- sick parents become more common, job demands fluctuate-- and sync…

I think you hit it right in the head with the synchronous nature. It's ignoring a great feature of the new medium. Ignoring it would be like putting an encyclopedia online without links. I wish the author would have discussed Udacity.

Or like putting the encyclopedia online and then, in 2013, deleting articles to "save space".

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#142

Post by VLM »

olalonde wrote: post #123
jahmohn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, Pamela. I am a long-time user of Coursera and I love the site. I have feedback for you as regards retention of students. The number one thing is due dates and late penalties. If I sign up for a course and work through the first few weeks and get everything done, and then I miss a deadline because life happens, suddenly I am no longer able to get a 100% in the class. I do not mind getting an A- in a class if it ha…

Genuine question: why do you care so much about your grade?

Both sides are pretending its a "for credit" class. So both draconian late penalties and great concern over the grade are appropriate.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#143

Post by epsylon »

jacalata wrote: post #89
mshron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Coursera has struck a very effective balance between synchronous and asynchronous learning. Once you sign up for a class, you're able to go back and watch videos, get assignments, even submit assignments for automated grading. For those of us who find the synchronous style to be a sufficient motivator, it's a great benefit. For people who fall behind but want to cover the material, they're welcome to do so. T…

That's certainly not true for all Coursera courses. I took one in February - if I go back and look at it now all the material is gone (although the lecturer put the videos on youtube) and there is nothing but a flat description of what the course was. I'm actually signed up for a course now that I found out about half way through and didn't have time to do on the spot, so I'm looking for a way to download all the mat…

To download the videos and the associated material, try coursera-dl:

https://github.com/jplehmann/coursera/

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#144

Post by johnminter »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #67
StavrosK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I wouldn't be motivated enough to follow 4 courses if it weren't for the synchronous model.

I think the real "dirty little secret" is that not nearly as many people actually want to learn a topic as think they do. The author said he really "intended" to take the class, but did he? Or did he just like the idea of it? Learning is hard work. Learning difficult subjects is harder still, and it's very demanding of your time. There's really no way around that fact. Let's be honest here, a lot of subjects sound in…

You are correct. Given the information deluge and the typical tl;dr response, none of this is surprising. The nice thing about Coursera is that there is no downside. Paying close to $50K/year for a first tier university is another matter. Sadly, in that case, too many students take the easy credit and end up with a boat load of debt and no degree.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#145

Post by avenger123 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #37

The issue with Coursera is the synchronous model. The material's good and the selection's excellent, and they deserve a lot of props for solving such a critical problem. College life is sanitized. Real World interjections are rare enough, at that age, to be handled case-by-case when it comes to extensions and such. Adult life is messy and complicated-- sick parents become more common, job demands fluctuate-- and sync…

I really like your point (1). It actually coincides with the same idea that I have had but you've described in a good way, the "Google for Learning and Development".

I am wondering why this can't be an actual web application? Have different topics, (ie. Learn Web Development, Python, Javascript) and actually have a listing/review of all the credible sources on the internet that one can use to do the learning. It would just be a listing but have others who learned the material, describe how they did it and have them review the resources.

It's come to a point where this is really needed. Just typing "learn javascript" on Google is just not good enough.

Is there something like this out there already?

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#146

Post by silverlake »

eah13 wrote: post #68

tl;dr: What's at stake here is the proper roles of ed tech in education. MOOCs are media, only one part of the ecosystem that is developing here, and I think that finding a central role for great educators is key. Coursera and other MOOCs are media properties that monetize viewership (thorugh certificates rather than ads). As media properties, michaelochurch and others are right that the synchronous model isn't reall…

We are following this model with LearningLine (www.learninglineapp.com). We offer an optional "class" format where an instructor is available to answer questions and review homework. With most eLearning, when students hit a topic they don't understand, they have to figure it out themselves. Some will quit when they hit this wall. Our instructors are there to help students keep going. No more web searches for help, just send a question and an instructor will answer and even get on Skype to explain in person.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#147

Post by dgabriel »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #106
zura wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the killer feature would be the availability of textual/reading material corresponding to 100% of the content provided by videos. So successfully completion of the course won't require watching the videos.

You may want to rethink that. For most of the classes I have taken the lectures were very enjoyable. I like the frequent quiz breaks also. The videos have captions if you like them.

This might be true for you, but I always prefer a transcript. I hate watching videos, unless it's strictly for entertainment and requires little real attention.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#148

Post by colin_jack »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #67
StavrosK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I wouldn't be motivated enough to follow 4 courses if it weren't for the synchronous model.

I think the real "dirty little secret" is that not nearly as many people actually want to learn a topic as think they do. The author said he really "intended" to take the class, but did he? Or did he just like the idea of it? Learning is hard work. Learning difficult subjects is harder still, and it's very demanding of your time. There's really no way around that fact. Let's be honest here, a lot of subjects sound in…

Bingo.

The only things I'd like from Coursera courses are:

* more that take 8-10 weeks rather than 6 weeks

* if the CS course happens to use a particular language then make it incredibly easy to get setup and provide downloadable structure for any assignments (the scala coursera course has that nailed)

* better estimates for # hours a week

In general thought the synchronous approach works perfectly for me and is the big reason I haven't yet felt the need to do any Udacity courses.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#149

Post by adaml_623 »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #55

That's because online education tries to simulate traditional education. Back awhile ago free online lecture videos (e.g. Berkeley) were simply uploaded to a page and anyone could go watch them without signing up for a class or otherwise jumping through hoops. This resulted in me watching a few random lectures about subjects I know little or nothing about. Like econ classes, engineering, science, or similar. This was…

With regards to your use of the word 'worthless' relating to the Coursera certificate of completion.

Many university courses aren't significantly different to Coursera so I think that if the courses keep up their standards and enough people have knowledge of them then it is possible that that certificate will not remain worthless.

We were discussing Coursera at work last week and I think that if a job candidate appeared with Coursera completion certificates on their CV then it wouldn't be looked at unfavourably.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#150

Post by huherto »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #67
StavrosK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I wouldn't be motivated enough to follow 4 courses if it weren't for the synchronous model.

I think the real "dirty little secret" is that not nearly as many people actually want to learn a topic as think they do. The author said he really "intended" to take the class, but did he? Or did he just like the idea of it? Learning is hard work. Learning difficult subjects is harder still, and it's very demanding of your time. There's really no way around that fact. Let's be honest here, a lot of subjects sound in…

Very insightful.

I have finished six coursera/udacity classes so far. The last one felt really hard, not because of the material or the teacher. I wasn't really interested in the subject. It was something that I thought it would be good and useful to learn, but I was not passionate about it. So, last night, I finally finished the course, but it wasn't easy.

So really the questions that I should be asking next time is which class I really feel passionate about, and/or how do I become passionate about the class that I am taking.

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