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Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

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Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#141

Post by ZeroGravitas »

aed wrote: post #110
VaughnDTaylor wrote: post #107

This is something that has been messing with my workflow so hear me out. First, I use CodeKit on my local machine to compile. CodeKit allows me to choose a framework (bootstrap-master > LESS files). I don't want to keep multiple versions of bootstrap-master sitting around on my computer. Preferably, I'd have the most current version with which I'd use to build all of my CSS (regardless of the site I'm working on) by…

I actually know exactly what you're talking about and here's what I do: - Put Bootstrap in a folder and import it as a framework in CodeKit. (Just like you.) - In my project folder, I create a LESS file for the project (e.g. project.less). - At the very top of my project.less I add an import for bootstrap (@import "bootstrap.less") - I define and customize all my LESS variables within the project.less without touchin…

The bootswatch project (basically themes for Bootstrap) uses a similar system, though they generally have two less files, one for overriding variables, and a second one for theme-specific additions.

https://github.com/thomaspark/bootswatch/tree/gh-pages/swatc...

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#142

Post by jrogers65 »

dheerosaur wrote: post #130
dminor wrote: post #34

> Removed all color variables (e.g., @blue, @orange, etc). New, more meaningful variables are on their way (such as @state-warning-text). Hooray! Should make customization that much easier.

I don't mind haveing color variables. When I need a new red, I define @projectRed or @redAlt. It is so much easier to remember red than some dangerColor. Why will they choose hyphenated variables instead of camelCase?

>Why will they choose hyphenated variables instead of camelCase?

Presumably because hyphentation is the standard in CSS.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#144

Post by philjones88 »

CCs wrote: post #87
ses4j wrote: post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

I agree, our Enterprise app still has a lot of IE7 visits. Roughly 10% IE7, 30% IE8, 25% IE9, 17% Chrome, 12% Firefox, 6% Safari. No IE10 yet, not even one.

Same stats roughly, 9.5% IE7. Client's are asking for IE7 support as base level (they normally don't ask for IE6 when I say +50% cost). I suspect next year will start the "death to IE7" campaign. Hopefully.

We also have 1.67% IE6 users who haven't take the hint, my banner and the fact it's totally broken doesn't deter them.

This is a public facing website, although we did investigate the IE7 users and found alot come from public/government networks. They strangely browse the site at work then buy at home (IE8+/Firefox/Chrome) which is frustrating as they won't buy if the site doesn't work in IE7...

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#145

Post by OriginalSyn »

Firehed wrote: post #133
OriginalSyn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should but from what I understand IE6/7 still account for fairly large portion of our revenue.

Really? Are you in enterprise software or something? We (WePay) see less than 1% of our traffic and revenue from IE We still officially support 7 for our offsite/embeddable stuff, but from the chatter I hear of the devs that are working on that stuff, the maintenance cost sounds higher than the revenue. Then again, that cost to us is yet another reason that people like our API, since its one less tedious thing for ot…

International ecommerce, including China, I can't speak to the exact numbers but the revenue from 6 and 7 is in the millions so we're not quite out of that maintenance cost to revenue hasn't quite tipped yet. Though we do display the ie6countdown.com banner along (and I may have messed it up a bit to display for 7 as well.)

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#146

Post by dheerosaur »

jrogers65 wrote: post #142
dheerosaur wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind haveing color variables. When I need a new red, I define @projectRed or @redAlt. It is so much easier to remember red than some dangerColor. Why will they choose hyphenated variables instead of camelCase?

>Why will they choose hyphenated variables instead of camelCase? Presumably because hyphentation is the standard in CSS.

But, variables are not standard in CSS. I always perceived less variables as JavaScript variables.

Now, I need to figure out a way to make Vim treat hyphenated words as words for filetype=less.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#147

Post by spiffytech »

melling wrote: post #88
ses4j wrote: post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

At some point people need to be pushed off. That's all there is to it. A lot of wasted developer time goes into supporting old browsers. Probably a lot more time than it would take to upgrade the browsers in the first place. If a large portion of the Internet stops working because a company/govt is using IE7, Firefox 3.6, etc, maybe they'll come to the conclusion that it's worth looking at different options.

While it's tempting to use the threat of obsolescence to force governments and enterprises to adopt newer software, these groups are traditionally the most resistant to such efforts. This is due not in significantly to the bastions of old tech living in iso, where all they have to talk to is the custom-built application.

Also, the promise that the forced obsolescence will eventually work out better for the world is cold comfort when it's you who must choose between legacy tech and sacrificing a large portion of your revenue.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#148

Post by CCs »

FireBeyond wrote: post #95
CCs wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't upgrade. Hospitals and big companies lock down the computers, you can't install anything. If it comes with IE7, that's all you got. And it's not because of these companies. E.g. they need to run a specific custom version of SAP (accounting), which on turn crashes if any other browser is present. Upgrading would cost over $30M, so forget it for a while. Or the hospital needs to validate the hardware + OS +…

To a degree, definitely. As someone who works in healthcare (both as a practitioner - paramedic), and whose other job is healthcare IT... I know your example is exaggerated for effect, but there is (or should) be a difference between "general use" PCs in a hospital, and Patient Care / Management PCs (EHR, workflow automation, digital diagnostic imaging, pharmacy and the like). That in itself is a failling of healthca…

I don't see a reason for general use PC in the Hospital (or any other company). Your Christmas shopping is not a business priority. :)

Philips and Siemens runs Windows. As far I remember the GE scanners were RedHat.

I do agree with the "ripe for disruption". Hopefully DrChrono, Practice Fusion and others will force some change.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#149

Post by ldh »

dheerosaur wrote: post #146
jrogers65 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why will they choose hyphenated variables instead of camelCase? Presumably because hyphentation is the standard in CSS.

But, variables are not standard in CSS. I always perceived less variables as JavaScript variables. Now, I need to figure out a way to make Vim treat hyphenated words as words for filetype=less.

You can either use the 'W' movement (instead of 'w') or use the 'iskeyword' option to change what is considered a word character. Word movement: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/usr_03.html#03.1
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