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Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

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Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#81
post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

I've found this site to be very helpful: http://bootstrapdocs.com/

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#82
post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

Maybe you should be looking into a more custom solution instead of using Bootstrap if you have to support IE7.

It's not like bootstrap adds 1000 features that can be created manually.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#83
post #82
post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

Maybe you should be looking into a more custom solution instead of using Bootstrap if you have to support IE7. It's not like bootstrap adds 1000 features that can be created manually.

Why would that be better than sticking with Bootstrap 2? Bootstrap has been a huge boon for us -- provides a cross browser, consistent, and well documented layout framework that has brought valuable organization and unification to our previously hodgepodge and inexpert usage of CSS. It's a fabulous tool, much better than any custom solution we would gin up with the limited time allotted for that sort of thing.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#84

How about dropping support for LESS and using SASS instead?

does SASS work without installing the pre-processor? I know LESS does. I didn't think SASS did. LESS will work well enough with just the js file loaded (if a bit slower).

You still have to compile both.

You shouldn't be running less.js in production.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#85
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_this_. And why drop support for FF 3.6 too? Is there a technical reason to drop support for older browsers or is it idealism?

When was the last time anybody used FF 3.6? Serious question.

Not a lot, but they are there. I just pulled the Google Analytics numbers for one of my sites and over the past 30 days (3.3M visits) there were 3,003 visits with Firefox 3.6 (1.2% of all FF visits and .09% of all visits).

IE 7 is more common, there were 67,841 IE 7 visits. Worse still is the 12,188 IE 6 visits. Amazingly there were 78 IE 5.5 visits, the web must be a crazy place with IE 5.5.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#86
post #51
post #40

> All variables now use dashes instead of camelCase. For example, it's now @body-background instead of @bodyBackground. Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand that's a pretty large sweeping change that is going to break all my customizations. On the other, dashes look much better in css and I prefer them for class names and so on. Not even sure why, is this some sort of community standard I picked up somewhere a…

I've always wondered why they initially chose camelCase and not dashes. I like keeping camelCase for JS only. CSS uses dashes (border-top). LESS uses dashes in its example documentation.

because you can't double click on class names that contain dashes to quickly copy and paste them into your html.

- do look neater but I wont switch because it frustrates me so much to not have that simple feature!

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#87
post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

I agree, our Enterprise app still has a lot of IE7 visits.

Roughly 10% IE7, 30% IE8, 25% IE9, 17% Chrome, 12% Firefox, 6% Safari. No IE10 yet, not even one.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#88
post #79

I wish they weren't dropping IE7 support. You can make fun of "who uses that!" all you want, but we build a site that is used by government people who can't control their own computers, and our current demographics are 50% IE7! Nothing to be done, we just can't upgrade to Bootstrap 3.0. So -- if you MUST do this, at least leave the website docs up for Bootstrap 2, cause we're not going anywhere...

At some point people need to be pushed off. That's all there is to it. A lot of wasted developer time goes into supporting old browsers. Probably a lot more time than it would take to upgrade the browsers in the first place. If a large portion of the Internet stops working because a company/govt is using IE7, Firefox 3.6, etc, maybe they'll come to the conclusion that it's worth looking at different options.

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 16th most popular user agent seen across the ~60,000 websites tracked by W3Counter. IE7 is the 7th. Dropping support for both will affect 1 in 20 visitors of the 'average' website (your particular audience may vary).

Maybe 5% of users need to get their shit together and upgrade. :|

They can't upgrade.

Hospitals and big companies lock down the computers, you can't install anything. If it comes with IE7, that's all you got.

And it's not because of these companies.

E.g. they need to run a specific custom version of SAP (accounting), which on turn crashes if any other browser is present. Upgrading would cost over $30M, so forget it for a while.

Or the hospital needs to validate the hardware + OS + software. Until GE does not support feature X they are stuck with the old version which requires a specific list of software to be installed.

You don't want to hear "sorry about the bad news last week that you have cancer - actually it was just a rendering glitch on your MRI due to the new Chrome version".

So life is a bit more complex than "just upgrade"...

Re: Bootstrap 3.0 Upcoming changes

#90
post #55

"Dropped all things fluid." Looks like I've got some updating to do in the near future.

The default grid system will be come fluid (using percents for widths), so you'll have to just find and replace the row classes and you should be okay. Unsure about more complex layouts though.
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