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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#141
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arrogance isn't going to hold against the sun. You mean against human-induced global warming.

[flagged]

It's certainly legitimate to question the role of solar variability in climate change, and it's absolutely something that has been looked at seriously.

The consensus, with increasing solidarity, from the 1990s through until now is that the sun is much the same as it has ever been for the majority of modern human civilised life and has contributed minor amounts to the observed changes of the past century; those changes primarily driven by human caused change to the insulation properties of the atmosphere.

  \1 Jack Eddy overcame this with a 1976 study that demonstrated that irregular variations in solar surface activity, a few centuries long, were connected with major climate shifts. The mechanism was uncertain, but plausible candidates emerged. The next crucial question was whether a rise in the Sun's activity could explain the global warming seen in the 20th century?

  By the 1990s, there was a tentative answer: minor solar variations could indeed have been partly responsible for some past fluctuations... but future warming from the rise in greenhouse gases far outweighed any solar effects.
~ https://history.aip.org/climate/solar.htm

  \2 Couldn't the Sun be the cause of global warming?

  If the Sun were to intensify its energy output then, yes, it would warm our world. Indeed, sunspot data indicate there was a small increase in the amount of incoming sunlight between the late 1800s and the mid-1900s that experts estimate contributed to at most up to 0.1°C of the 1.0°C (1.8°F) of warming observed since the pre-industrial era.

  However, there has been no significant net change in the Sun’s energy output from the late 1970s to the present, which is when we have observed the most rapid global warming.
~ https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/couldnt-sun...

  \3 The Basics of Climate Change: https://royalsociety.org/news-resources/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sure the sun is a proximal cause… But are you really going to tell me that you me that tho evidence that temperatures are getting warmer is bunk? For starters check out the top diagram here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change# Would you argue against the physics of greenhouse gases? https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-pinpoint-the-quant... Are you too young to have noticed climate changes over time in…

The sun is the source of global warming and has been since the Precambrian. No, I would not argue against the science of the greenhouse effect and I'm older than you are. What are you even trying to state?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#143
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give a chart with actual numbers on the increase in temperature versus the sun. Not a diagram from an elementary science textbook on how air conditioners work.

I’m not debating that the sun is stronger heating source. I’m just saying air-conditioning increases climate change because it uses fossil fuels and also the law of thermodynamics dictates that he will be created in this instance.

Air conditioners don't need to use fossil fuels. Solar power and AC work really well together because peak solar energy is exactly when you need AC the most.

No heat is created either, that would explicitly violate the first law of thermodynamics. An air conditioner powered by solar energy (or anything solar powered) ends up releasing the exact same amount of "excess" heat as the sunlight would have if it hadn't been absorbed by the panels.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#144
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. Historically AC has not been necessary for the one to two days a year it was needed, but that world is gone now and the situation has changed and the widespread adoption of AC is now necessary. Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but…

Is it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?

Yes!

Most of Europe has a "registered building" system, where buildings above a certain age are considered historic. Renovating those buildings is an extremely difficult, expensive, and bureaucratic process. You generally need to preserve the period-appropriate look and materials. An AC unit sticking out of a wall won't pass muster.

Even newer buildings are problematic. an acquaintance of mine lives in an upper-middle-class apartment complex that was finished two or three years ago, and their architect has some claim in the contract that prevents residents from installing AC units to "preserve the building's unique look."

The US is build around privately-owned housing (and hence creature comforts) a lot more than we are, so AC is a lot easier to implement there.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#145
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Las Vegas and one year at the start of summer my AC went out. It took a week to order the part needed and make the fix. I lived out of casinos for that week (using HotelTonight to get a different place each night) and it was pretty fun. I gained 10lbs. That said, AC's are a necessity out here.

I'd probably invest in a secondary AC and a generator/battery to power it. That heat is brutal.

Absolutely. In the northeast US we have triple redundancy on heat, because it’s potentially life-threatening to have the heat go out in a blizzard with subzero temps. I’d treat cooling redundancy as similarly important in Nevada, especially if not very mobile.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#146

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

There are practical reasons why it isn’t widespread:

1. Energy is very expensive relative to the U.S. 2. Houses are old old and retrofitting air conditioning is very difficult 3. Houses are more than 1 story with many small rooms making portable and window mounted units unsuitable for a whole house

All modern apartment buildings in London are built with air conditioning because a central air system and district power make it cost efficient.

If you visit a hot place like Dubai or Bangkok, there are endless indoor malls with air conditioning that serve as a place to shop and a third space. Much of Europe doesn’t have that.

The U.S. specifically is also very car-centric. You walk out of your air conditioned house into your air conditioned car and drive to your air conditioned mall. Much of Europe… isn’t. People walk, you can’t avoid the heat.

Yes, certainly, there is a cultural resistance to air conditioning but adding air conditioning to homes isn’t going to stop people dying, homes are the least consequential part of heat in day to day life. Health advice in a heatwave is pretty much: don't go outside.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#147
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No it doesn't. Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics. Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...

It does on my balcony where the fan pumps to, which has made doing any gardening difficult, but to the overall outside temperature it's just a drop in the ocean.

Sure. And each car is just a drop in the ocean of CO2. And each plane flight. And smoking one cigarette.

Humans have a really hard time understanding compounding risk. But there are billions of us. How many billions of drops can you handwave away?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average temperature across the entire globe averaged over a year does not mean that each day is subject to the exact average added to it. Global warming intensifies differences in weather patterns. Hotter hots, colder colds, more intense storms, etc.

Seeing as it's so commonly misunderstood I wonder if "catastrophic climate variance" wouldn't have been a better term in hindsight.

People don't know what variance is.

Most people have an intuitive understanding of what an average is, but "distance from the average" is mystifying to them.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

It's just a heat transfer. Refrigerant inside the evaporator picks up heat and transfers it to the condensing unit outside. They don't create heat. It was there in the first place, just a different location.

Wait so they’re perfectly efficient?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#150

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Living in London and Dublin, what I've observed is that we get the following contradictory statements: - "We don't need AC, It's only hot a few times during the year." - "Oh what a terrible heat, global warming is getting worse every year." Pair to that the fact that in many places windows don't open all the way due to bureocratic regulations and many interior designs are very questionable in terms of air flow and yo…

For the wind out ones with the chain at the bottom, you can open up the box and remove the limiter that stops it opening all the way. They make the same opener for ground level and highrises with just a limiter keeping it mostly closed when installed high up.
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