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White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

reuters.com

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Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#141

Post by FeloniousHam »

preg_match wrote: post #106
rayiner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not any easier to get a national ID in say Germany if you don't already have one. E.g. https://www.personalausweisportal.de/SharedDocs/faqs/Webs/PA... "In order to be issued a national ID card, you need to be able to establish your identity and your German citizenship. If at the time of your application you are not able to provide any documentation of your identity, such as an expired national ID card or a birth…

The undeniable reality is that these measures do, in fact, constitute barriers to voting and the barriers are not evenly applied. Less privileged Americans are less likely to have ID, and that’s just a statistical fact. If the opposition cannot be trusted to even so much as acknowledge reality and fact, we must reject all notions of voter ID, with no exceptions. One begins to wonder why the right is so unbelievably h…

If it makes you feel any better, efforts to "disenfranchise" eg. by requiring ID or "enfranchise" by making it easier to vote with same-day registration/voting, mail-in ballots, early voting, etc. have minimal effect on the outcome, independent of the majority party or location.

I just not that hard to (register to) vote. People who want to cast a vote will. The ones don't, won't.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#142

Post by rayiner »

FireBeyond wrote: post #120
rayiner wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty crazy you want to take a dig at the Bush campaign. I once did an experiment on my FB where I described Gore’s selective recount scheme but attributed it to Trump. And people jumped up and down talking about how it was voter suppression and cheating. But when I revealed it was Gore, it was just hemming and hawing. These are all smart, college educated people too. Truly, there is no hope for the republic.

I remember the poll that asked Republican voters about their relative approval of “Obamacare” versus “an Affordable Care Act” and got a nearly 20% differential. And then the number one Google search on the last Election Day? “Did Biden drop out?” We truly have one of the least informed electorates in the world. And one of the worst for considering political parties as sports teams to be rewarded with loyalty at all c…

Soon it will be: "keep your dirty government hands off my Obamacare."

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#143

Post by [deleted] »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #114
rayiner wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNN says exactly the opposite! “Taken as a whole, the recount studies show Bush would have most likely won the Florida statewide hand recount of all undervotes. Undervotes are ballots that did not register a vote in the presidential race.” Counting undervotes isn't my theory. It was Gore's theory of which votes should be counted. Gore never argued overvotes--where a voter had marked multiple candidates--should be cou…

"The studies also show that Gore likely would have won a statewide recount of all undervotes and overvotes, which are ballots that included multiple votes for president and were thus not counted at all". So it seems like he won the votes anyways. If your retort is "not if we count undervotes, while ignoring overvotes" , that would be a different discussion altogether.

[deleted]

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#144

Post by rayiner »

jmyeet wrote: post #134
tzs wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the butterfly ballots? The errors those likely caused would not be randomly distributed.

The butteryfly ballot was an approved but confusing ballot that almost certainly cost Gore the election. But what is the remedy? There's no other choice but to have a better ballot next time. "The voters were confused by a legal and approved ballot" can't be the basis to overturn an election or it'll never end. Another good example of this is how Alaska adopted ranked choice voting. In 2022, the 2 Republican candidat…

With a margin that small, there's a good chance that Bush won the election because his name came before Gore's. I bet there's more than 500 people in the electorate who simply pick the first name on the list.

What's hilarious to me is that states recognize that ordering of names on the ballot actually makes a difference at the margins, and most states have rules for how to do it: https://ballotpedia.org/Rules_on_ballot_order_and_party_labe.... For example, in 13 states the order of the names on the ballot is decided at random. Given that, it seems foolish to me to pretend that an election with a margin of 500 votes or so produced a discernible winner. I don't know how you fix that in a workable way.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#145

Post by collabs »

rayiner wrote: post #100
collabs wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also worth noting that these mandatory registration schemes are free of cost or I guess free of cost at the point of service. I think if we require a voter ID / national ID card scheme, it has to be free of cost at the point of service as well. These services should be at least AT MINIMUM as ubiquitous as a post office and / or at least TWO full time locations with extended hours for every county / parish / etc…

Taiwan's isn't free. Conversely, voter ID cards in the U.S. are free for people that don't have other ID. Texas and Georgia have offered free voter ID cards for more than a decade. All this infrastructure already exists.

> Taiwan's isn't free. Conversely, voter ID cards in the U.S. are free for people that don't have other ID. Texas and Georgia have offered free voter ID cards for more than a decade. All this infrastructure already exists.

Nope, this is not even remotely good enough. Federal mandate must come with federal money. Also, there should be no caveats like "people who don't have other ID". It should be free of cost completely with no additional burden on the part of the voter.

I don't know much about Taiwan but I about it has a sizeable minority whom the government is trying to disenfranchise.

I don't believe it is possible for you and I to see eye to eye on this matter.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#146

Post by mulderc »

tmp10423288442 wrote: post #87
mulderc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My states system is very transparent and has many systems for detecting fraud but people on the right claim otherwise and they are either ignorant of how it worked or just lying.

What’s your state?

Oregon

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#147

Post by baggy_trough »

afavour wrote: post #138
baggy_trough wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The USA doesn't have one voting system. Each state has their own. Perhaps you could explain how "progressives" rigged the system in a state like Georgia, an overwhelmingly Republican state with a Republican governor?

I make no claims about Georgia. California is what I'm familiar with.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#148

Post by [deleted] »

tomhow wrote: post #135
baggy_trough wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We've asked you several times not to post flamebait on HN. You've been here long enough to know what the guidelines are. If you keep posting like this we'll have to assume you want to be banned. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#149

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #84
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get this. Isn’t it weak, two point out that no one can find evidence after the fact, versus the proper alternative that no one can prove that they’re actually-secure before the fact? Let’s just say that you were a bad guy and manipulating elections, wouldn’t you be bad at your job if someone could detect it after the fact? How many people would a conspiracy even take to pull of? I don’t get the US system. The…

> Isn’t it weak, two point out that no one can find evidence after the fact, versus the proper alternative that no one can prove that they’re actually-secure before the fact? Isn't it weaker, to claim fraud so vast it changed a presidential election, while presenting no evidence? Then, to ask for billion-dollar changes to voting, which also suppress voting, and when asked why, to shrug and then repeat the same debunk…

You people are ridiculous.

Such mental gymnastics for a simple fact: no one can prove elections are secure. End of story.

Re: White House delays US voting-machine vulnerability report

#150

Post by pseudalopex »

jfengel wrote: post #41
caseysoftware wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid close attention.. and agreed that that particular approach was broken. My question was: what's the argument in favor of using a proprietary electronic system?

I think just the fact that it was the first thing on offer that wasn't the thing they were already using. There are better alternatives, and if legislatures were designed to come up with optimal solutions, we'd probably have use one of them. Instead we have inertia, because the Sainted Holy Founders thought inertia was good for a country, so they optimized legislative branches to be useless.

> I think just the fact that it was the first thing on offer that wasn't the thing they were already using.

It was not.

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