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Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

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Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#141

Post by yozmsn »

gfodor wrote: post #105
CoryG89 wrote: post #42

Until Microsoft Dreamspark, this is how I was able to teach myself to program. This really happens. However, I think programs like Dreamspark are the answer to this. Microsoft will let you download Visual Studio if you go to school. Not word (but it's only $99 for a student, affordable). Article is a little misleading when it comes to paying for Adobe CS in general. If you are a student you can usually pick it up for…

Not certain but Dreamspark requires some type of "student verification" process, which may be prohibitive to many young people who could stand the most to gain from access to these products. I certainly can't imagine my 13-year-old self, who was a big enough geek to be giddy warezing Turbo C++, getting access to Dreamspark.

Yeah, you need to have a .edu email address, which if I understand correctly is not something high schools or middle schools give out anymore, as the .edu domain has become exclusively for higher education (Universities, etc), still most of the tools you get from Dreamspark aren't all that important and the open sources alternatives are often better.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#142

Post by kstenerud »

cageface wrote: post #140
kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

It probably depends on the business, but I know several developers of music production software that can correlate huge drops in sales with the release of new cracks of their software to the exact day . I think we are a little too quick to assume that a pirated copy is not a lost sale.

That would make sense, considering that music production software tends to be viciously expensive, and music producers tend to not have much money.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#143

Post by learc83 »

yozmsn wrote: post #138
learc83 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Adobe Software it's easier than it has been in years. No need to install a patch. You just have to edit your host file to block all the domains CS uses to phone home.

Right, but finding a good Product Key is very difficult still.

No it's not. The keys don't go bad. 1 Key can be used for a million installs b/c the software never contacts adobe.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#144

Post by greggman »

vidarh wrote: post #117
cremnob wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's semantics and is irrelevant every time this topic comes up because no one is actually talking about legal definitions. Pirates always seem to miss that it's a moral argument when they trot out these familiar lines (the irony isn't lost on me). Whether or not you're guilty of petty theft, shoplifting, larceny, or burglary is for your lawyers and the courts to determine. For me and others from my position it is mu…

I find it ironic that you make your argument this way, when the statement that it is not theft is generally exactly intended to highlight the moral issue. To me and a lot of others, illegal copying is far more morally defensible than theft. If someone tries to call a person that pirate a thief, my immediate reaction is that the claim is not only flat out false, but offensive. Copyright protection is an artificial gov…

So what do you call it when you take a service and don't pay for the service? If you hire a lawyer but don't pay her for her time. If you hire a plumber but don't pay him for his time? A car mechanic? A doctor? A programmer? An artist?

I see that a programmer or artist is slightly different because the work the programmer or artist did can be duplicated where as the lawyer, plumber, doctor, car mechanic's work can not but they're still effectively the same. Someone worked and expects to be compensated for that work. Not compensating someone for work you received I believe is also called "theft".

I'll also note that the most pirated software often represents a lot more work than a single lawyer, plumber, doctor, car mechanic. If you use one of their services you'll likely get a few hours of their time. If you pirate photoshop or MW3 that likely represents a few hundred man years of time.

Anyway, I'm not arguing against piracy. I'm not sure what other word their is though for taking someone's time/labor without paying them.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#145

Post by mgkimsal »

majorlazer wrote: post #88
chasing wrote: post #5

I'm glad things worked out for Vlad -- when I was younger, I pirated a fair amount of software and games, and, like him, I think it enabled me to get inspired to learn more about computers in general and, indeed, now I stare at them all day for work. But. I'm not sure what the bigger point is, here. Should we be okay with piracy as long as the pirate is using it for self-betterment? Do games count for that? What abou…

If a kid goes through the trouble of learning how to download, crack, and install software, I see that as a good barrier of entry for someone to start learning a piece of software. If you are going through all that trouble, chances are you are really interested in what you are pursuing and there is a bigger chance you may pursue a career in design/dev. And when you do enter the field, your employer will purchase lice…

" I know that if I didn't pirate software as a kid, there is no way in hell I would be working in the web now"

There's a whole mess of us "working in the web" who never pirated software for web development.

This may be more a 'kid/adult' thing - I went through about 3 years of pirating games for my C128 back in the 80s, then pretty much just stopped pirating. So, I can't say I've never pirated. I did. I bought many games too, but copied/traded with friends at school. There was an element of social currency when trading (who had skyfox? who had bard's tale? etc). But by 12th grade, there was no attraction for me anymore.

As an adult, I've paid for almost all my software, but have primarily used open source software (desktop linux for years), learning the LAMP stack from the ground up - absolutely 0 need for piracy of any sort, and it's provided a great foundation for working in the web field.

Perhaps with fewer people justifying the means with the ends, we'd have more users/contributors on open source projects and tools, continuing to make that ecosystem even better, vs propping up the dominance of some established commercial vendors with legions of essentially free training and advertising by continued acceptance of pirated software use.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#146

Post by jiggy2011 »

ixacto wrote: post #132
kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

It is easier to pirate, and pirated versions of software generally restrict calling home so IMO some pirated software is better than the non-pirated version.

Only if whoever cracked it remembered to rip that part of the code out. I'm sure there's a few companies out there compiling lists of IP addresses.

If you are worried about your software doing shit you don't want, open source or bust.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#147

Post by jiggy2011 »

kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

I remember the proud moment I first accumulated 10 gigs of porn (mostly 5 minute clips at about 320x240).

I think the problem is that now it's just so easy it's not fun anymore.

I also eventually realised that I had only a finate amount of time on this planet and I don't need every discography in the world.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#148

Post by jasonlotito »

Devilboy wrote: post #7
chasing wrote: post #5

I'm glad things worked out for Vlad -- when I was younger, I pirated a fair amount of software and games, and, like him, I think it enabled me to get inspired to learn more about computers in general and, indeed, now I stare at them all day for work. But. I'm not sure what the bigger point is, here. Should we be okay with piracy as long as the pirate is using it for self-betterment? Do games count for that? What abou…

Stealing a car deprives someone of a car. Copying a car does not.

Bear with me, I'm trying to play devil's advocate here.

While you might not be depriving someone of a car, you are devaluing the product. Consider in the OP's case, he learned how to do certain things with this stolen software, and now he can sell his services for what is most likely less than what those who paid for their software and training charge. This, in some way, steals work from them. His knowledge is "illegally gained." Even if they don't charge less for their work, maybe they come here on a visa. Once again, taking jobs from those that earned it through legal channels.

So simply suggest that the only ramifications are from the software company missing out on a sale ignores the entire ecosystem.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#149

Post by Xcelerate »

marcamillion wrote: post #137
Xcelerate wrote: post #133

I realize mine is a pretty unpopular opinion on Hacker News, but I probably would not hire anyone who thinks pirating software is morally acceptable. The way I see it, any argument for piracy is simply rationalization. The point is that someone has invested a lot of time and money into creating something and they are offering the usage of that software for a price. If you use it without paying that price, then you ar…

With all due respect this is pretty ignorant. If someone goes to the lengths required to pirate & use your creation you should be flattered. The very nature of the action of them trying to get your creation - even though they don't have money - is testament to the value they think you have created. If they keep pirating your stuff every time you release a new version - you really should re-consider your pricing optio…

> With all due respect this is pretty ignorant.

Ignorant? Do you know what that word means? Let me quote dictionary.com for you: "Lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned". I don't appreciate you calling me ignorant, seeing as how I do not meet the definition in any way.

> If someone goes to the lengths required to pirate & use your creation you should be flattered.

If someone goes to the lengths/peril required to rob your bank, you should be flattered. Sorry, this argument holds no water with me. How I "should" feel about something is not up to anyone else.

If they don't have the money to afford my creation, they should talk to me about it. If I think they have a good reason for needing it, I'll give it to them for free. If I don't think they do, then it really should not be their decision to just take it anyway.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#150

Post by marcamillion »

mgkimsal wrote: post #139
marcamillion wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect this is pretty ignorant. If someone goes to the lengths required to pirate & use your creation you should be flattered. The very nature of the action of them trying to get your creation - even though they don't have money - is testament to the value they think you have created. If they keep pirating your stuff every time you release a new version - you really should re-consider your pricing optio…

"It means you are likely leaving money on the table." Wow, and for the past X (10? 20?) years, we've all been told "pirates wouldn't have bought anyway, so the 'lost revenue' is only $0'.

Well...all you have to do is look at the most pirated movies and the highest grossing movies. There is a strong correlation there.

Also, the same can be said about software. It seems to me that the firms that create the most pirated software (from MSFT, Adobe, Apple, et. al) are doing ok.

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