Editorial: "How piracy changed my life" • Hacker News Board

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#131

Post by learc83 » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:32 AM UTC

cremnob wrote: post #27

Devilboy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing a car deprives someone of a car. Copying a car does not.

This trope comes up every time piracy is discussed. The point is no one is talking about the legal meaning of "stealing" versus "copyright infringement". What people are saying is that it's immoral. The fact that a content company's product is easily stolen simply because the nature of his business means it is effortless to do through the internet doesn't change anything. If you go to a lawyer for legal advice and th…

If a thief steals a car that sells for $10,000, is the dealership out the cost of the car, or are they out the cost of the car plus $10k because the thief might have purchased the car at some point?

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#132

Post by ixacto » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:39 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

It is easier to pirate, and pirated versions of software generally restrict calling home so IMO some pirated software is better than the non-pirated version.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#133

Post by Xcelerate » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:40 AM UTC

I realize mine is a pretty unpopular opinion on Hacker News, but I probably would not hire anyone who thinks pirating software is morally acceptable. The way I see it, any argument for piracy is simply rationalization.

The point is that someone has invested a lot of time and money into creating something and they are offering the usage of that software for a price. If you use it without paying that price, then you are disrespecting the person that created it because you are ignoring their wishes for the thing that they have invested a lot of time into. It just feels very wrong to me.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#134

Post by learc83 » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:41 AM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #17

lucian1900 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that taking strong measures against copyright infringement is stupid. Many (if not most) of the people that do it would pay a reasonable price if it was possible for them to do so. Also, stealing a car is nothing like copyright infringement. There is absolutely no parallel you can draw there.

> "Many (if not most) of the people that do it would pay a reasonable price if it was possible for them to do so." And the fact that they can't afford it gives them justification for stealing it? Would it not make more sense, that if you can't afford something you aren't entitled to it? If a poor or homeless person were to steal food from a shop they wouldn't be allowed to do it because, although they would like to p…

If the homeless person was taking food from the infinite food replicator, then yes it would be fine.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#135

Post by marcamillion » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:43 AM UTC

kruk wrote: post #110

glomph wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private torrent trackers are also fuelled by this drive. The 'game' abstraction has been made so real with ranks, stats, leaderboards and so on. It really is quite amazing how willing people are to sink time into providing a service, moderating, sourcing, encoding (people sink LOADS of time into learning the finest details of x264), cracking, uploading and distributing all for for no material gain outside 'the game'.

I don't think it's just about the game. I believe many people involved in distribution of illegal content do it out of a genuine desire to share. For every released movie, every song, a book or a piece of software there exists a group of people with no means of accessing it in a legal way (and probably another, much larger, of people who can't afford it).

Maybe SOME people involved in doing it was for a genuine desire to share.

Let me tell you, though, there are a lot of rewards from being "first". Either the first person to get your hands on a pre-release item, or the first one to rip it, or the first group to release it, or the first racer to move it the fastest to the top.

It is beautiful in its simplicity - but there are many incentives to get people to be 'the first'.

Just like the price mechanism in modern day capitalist economies is beautiful in its simplicity to get people to move into a market were demand is high.

So I think the vast majority of the people involved in "the scene" are doing it for the incentives/rewards that come with being first. If everybody tries to be first and is racing against everyone else, the entire system gets efficient at moving pre-release stuff very quickly.

It's impossible to fight - which is why it still thrives today.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#136

Post by learc83 » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:46 AM UTC

eshvk wrote: post #39

chasing wrote: post #5

I'm glad things worked out for Vlad -- when I was younger, I pirated a fair amount of software and games, and, like him, I think it enabled me to get inspired to learn more about computers in general and, indeed, now I stare at them all day for work. But. I'm not sure what the bigger point is, here. Should we be okay with piracy as long as the pirate is using it for self-betterment? Do games count for that? What abou…

Since the car analogy isn't working: Let me try another one, equally with flaws no doubts. :-) Piracy as we known it is rampant of the coasts of Somalia (Yes, I am talking about real world pirates). One of the reasons why that is happening is the systematic breakdown of the livelihoods of fisherman in the region due to dumping of toxic wastes of those coasts and the free flow of arms. Now, it is arguable that those f…

>e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent.

By that definition a criminal who steals a a physical product from a store is guilty of both stealing the product and depriving the store of his hypothetical future patronage.

What about producing better substitute product. Am I guilty because I create a product that stops people from buying your product?

If it's not the act of piracy that makes it immoral, but the result, then anything else that has the same result should be equally immoral.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#137

Post by marcamillion » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:46 AM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #133

I realize mine is a pretty unpopular opinion on Hacker News, but I probably would not hire anyone who thinks pirating software is morally acceptable. The way I see it, any argument for piracy is simply rationalization. The point is that someone has invested a lot of time and money into creating something and they are offering the usage of that software for a price. If you use it without paying that price, then you ar…

With all due respect this is pretty ignorant.

If someone goes to the lengths required to pirate & use your creation you should be flattered.

The very nature of the action of them trying to get your creation - even though they don't have money - is testament to the value they think you have created.

If they keep pirating your stuff every time you release a new version - you really should re-consider your pricing options or your distribution strategy. It means you are likely leaving money on the table.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#138

Post by yozmsn » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:50 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #127

yozmsn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe Software in no longer easy to pirate. From what I understand people have to go to great lengths to pirate CS6, same goes for Office 2010, a friend told me that to pirate it he had to call Microsoft and mess around with files, it's not just a keygen anymore.

For Adobe Software it's easier than it has been in years. No need to install a patch. You just have to edit your host file to block all the domains CS uses to phone home.

Right, but finding a good Product Key is very difficult still.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#139

Post by mgkimsal » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:51 AM UTC

marcamillion wrote: post #137

Xcelerate wrote: post #133

I realize mine is a pretty unpopular opinion on Hacker News, but I probably would not hire anyone who thinks pirating software is morally acceptable. The way I see it, any argument for piracy is simply rationalization. The point is that someone has invested a lot of time and money into creating something and they are offering the usage of that software for a price. If you use it without paying that price, then you ar…

With all due respect this is pretty ignorant. If someone goes to the lengths required to pirate & use your creation you should be flattered. The very nature of the action of them trying to get your creation - even though they don't have money - is testament to the value they think you have created. If they keep pirating your stuff every time you release a new version - you really should re-consider your pricing optio…

"It means you are likely leaving money on the table."

Wow, and for the past X (10? 20?) years, we've all been told "pirates wouldn't have bought anyway, so the 'lost revenue' is only $0'.

Re: Editorial: "How piracy changed my life"

#140

Post by cageface » Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 2:52 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #76

I'm one of those people who would pirate just because I could. It was almost a game, trying to amass as much warez as I could, to the point that 90% of the stuff I got I either never used, or used only once. That changed over time. As my time became more valuable, I couldn't spend all day fiddling with software anymore. I became more focused, downloading only stuff I used a lot. And then it hit me: It would be far ea…

It probably depends on the business, but I know several developers of music production software that can correlate huge drops in sales with the release of new cracks of their software to the exact day.

I think we are a little too quick to assume that a pirated copy is not a lost sale.