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Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

daringfireball.net

141–150 of 173 posts

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Double tap. 2) Reader mode. There are two excellent solutions built into your browser!

I am literally showing the reader mode view in my screenshot. I know how to work around badly designed websites.

Right but also the first website is actually fine too and I significantly prefer mobile users not getting some weird badly thought about mobile UI.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think you are really bothered by it either given you are discussing this on a website which has exactly the same behavior :)

Nope, HN's CSS accommodates smaller screen sizes [1]: /* mobile device */ @media only screen and (min-width : 300px) and (max-width : 750px) { #hnmain { width: 100%; min-width: 0; } body { padding: 0; margin: 0; width: 100%; } td { height: inherit !important; } .title, .comment { font-size: inherit; } span.pagetop { display: block; margin: 3px 5px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal } Not perfect by any means but a…

Nope, your snippet proves nothing. The only font rule in it is `font-size: inherit`, which means "don't change the size." So your proof that HN resizes text is a line that resizes nothing. Since your snippet was so useless I had to go read the actual news.css to find out what rules are actually there. The result: body text goes from 12px to 13.3px.

It's still small. The widely considered standard size of body copy is 16px or 1rem.

But the thing is, which was my point all along, it doesn't fucking matter.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#143
post #98

Good grief, hopefully in v28 Lemay will also throw away the absolute crap that is Liquid glass. Aesthetically it looks horrible, it slows my iPhone 13 — which never before lagged in all its life since iOS 15 – to a maddening crawl. Liquid glass should be taught in design school as an example of what not to do when you design UX. And also in business school as a case of how middle management can fudge up something tha…

> Aesthetically it looks horrible, it slows my iPhone 13 — which never before lagged in all its life since iOS 15 – to a maddening crawl I have an iPhone 13 mini and have not experienced this.

Liquid Glass made my 13 mini consistently lock up and overheat. Multiple reboots every day. Ludicrously slow screen repaints. It only stopped with the latest version (26.5).

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#144
post #85

> I don’t know if all the untalented hacks are gone, but the untalented magazine-designer hacks with clout and influence all left with Alan Dye. As usual for Gruber, this is fanboy cope. Dye may be a convenient scapegoat, but he was not a lone wolf, he was operating with the full assent of executive leadership, which is to say, the same leadership that appointed his successor.

It’s important not to forget the (work) politics while looking at the work produced. Unfortunately when you get a politically astute Mad Men (for real, from Ogilvy) in the organization, great damage can be done for a very long time without much recourse. You’ll note Dye was an Ive decision. And you’ll see the successor was not in Dye’s camp. Because (work) politics. From https://daringfireball.net/2025/12/bad_dye_job…

Whether or not the successor was a friend of Dye isn't relevant here. Let's say for a moment that Apple's design woes were a result of Dye. Dye was appointed by Apple's leadership. The conclusion would that Apple's leadership isn't capable of evaluating whether or not someone is fit for the job. And even if the guy who appointed Dye isn't around any more, the guy who appointed Dye was also appointed by Apple's leadership; despite whatever turnover there may be, there is an entire web of leadership continuity that resulted in Apple not being capable of selecting proper leaders, which means there is no reason to suspect that the current guy will fare any better. Politics is politics; the idea that the last guy was appointed because he was good at politics only goes to show that Apple fundamentally rewards politicking, not ability, so the assumption must be that the new guy is also a politicker first and foremost. Gruber is hoping that the new guy, in addition to politicking, is also good at design, but that's all it is: hope, and hope as a front for refusing to face harsh truths (to wit: the harsh truth that Apple has no magic touch left, especially difficult for a lifelong super-fanboy like Gruber to understand) is called cope.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#145

Aw. I may have been the only one, but I kind of liked those.

Same, my brain is pretty visually oriented so I kind of like the icons. To be clear I don't really use the icons to pick out a particular item, but they just look nice. It's kind of like pleasant background music in a hotel lobby.

If you're visually oriented it's easier to quickly find what you're looking for when there's only occasional icons as visual anchor points rather than everything being a bunch of tiny icons you have to parse

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#146

MacOS 27 Beta seems to actually fix a lot of my complaints with Tahoe. I had cynically been believing Apple was simply going to let macOS rot and not fix these major annoyances. (Rather interestingly, menus still have icons if a menu option will simply launch another app, a specific folder that has an icon, or will perform a specific action like a window resize or category sort change that already has an icon you cou…

The poor quality of macOS Tahoe is by design as it is a "transition" release - a transition OS release is often like a beta quality release (of some feature) and often features a "break" (like loss of hardware support or EOL etc.). It is meant to frustrate the user, so that the "next" OS release (which fixes all the bugs of the "beta" features is more "appealing" and hyped (just read all the comments praising the new release here and elsewhere :). Apparently Tahoe is going to be the last macOS that supports Intel macs - that means it will continue to frustrate Intel Mac users and force them to consider buying the Apple ARM models if they want to use the newer macOS. A similar thing happened with Catalina too after it dropped support for 32-bit apps - many people chose to remain in the previous version (Mojave) because it was less "buggy" / appealing than Catalina. Followed by the "hype" of how the next version (Big Sur) was "so much better". Microsoft also does this with Windows OS - e.g. Windows Vista and Windows 8 both can be considered "transition" releases that are infamous due to their "beta" quality features and / or frustrating UI features. (This tactic of boring and / or frustrating the viewers is more common in many popular TV series, where one or more episodes is often deliberately made that way - by focusing on something mundane and meaningless that doesn't really move the story forward, so that it makes the following and often climax episodes more exciting, fulfilling and enjoyable. E.g. Breaking Bad s03e10 - The Fly - the most boring episode of season 3).

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#147

Good grief, hopefully in v28 Lemay will also throw away the absolute crap that is Liquid glass. Aesthetically it looks horrible, it slows my iPhone 13 — which never before lagged in all its life since iOS 15 – to a maddening crawl. Liquid glass should be taught in design school as an example of what not to do when you design UX. And also in business school as a case of how middle management can fudge up something tha…

I don’t think Liquid Glass is inherently bad. I think Apple’s implementation and overuse of those effects is bad.

I think Liquid Glass is inherently bad. Universaly accepted truths about UIs that Liquid Glass violates:

* Consistent look across instances

* Consistent look as surrounding content changes

* Contrast is meaningful

* Interactsble elements are not stacked on the z axis

* Animation conveys meaning

You can see evidence that even Apple understands this by the presence of the options to disable many aspects of Liquid Glass living in the accessibility options.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#148
post #57

For those that haven’t seen this very well done write up about Tahoe’s use of icons, I would definitely recommend it: https://tonsky.me/blog/tahoe-icons/

Holy sh... That's ehm, 'impressive'!

"On the upside: it’s not that hard anymore to design better than Apple!"

Good one to keep in mind.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#149

I'm happy to see the HIG (Human Interface Guidelines) referenced in the post. I was unaware Apple still maintained such a document? There was a time when TOG's HIG [1] was the Bible for the Mac interface. UI nerds at Apple (and likely elsewhere) would enjoy debating/interpreting them for some project or another. (I don't recall anyone being burned at the stake but there were definitely discussions that could reach a…

Page 12 (PDF p36) seems almost written for the people who did the Tahoe menus

It would've been very funny if the left side is an actual screenshot of a system app from Tahoe.

Re: Sweet Jeebus, macOS 27 Golden Gate Removes the Dumb Icons from Menu Items

#150
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aesthetically it looks horrible, it slows my iPhone 13 — which never before lagged in all its life since iOS 15 – to a maddening crawl I have an iPhone 13 mini and have not experienced this.

Liquid Glass made my 13 mini consistently lock up and overheat. Multiple reboots every day. Ludicrously slow screen repaints. It only stopped with the latest version (26.5).

Anecdotal evidence is not proof, and as I’ve seen two people in this thread saying the performance of their iPhone 13s improved after iOS 26, I don’t see how you could concretely attribute any of your issues to Liquid Glass specifically (especially since you say it has been resolved with 26.5 despite Liquid Glass still being present in the os).
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