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We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

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Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#141

Post by wasabi991011 »

echelon wrote: post #96
EA-3167 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s angry? We’re just not interested in someone else’s unethical and unwelcome business practices and are acting to curtail its impact. Your dreams of business success aren’t my problem, and neither is your shamelessness.

Sending you an email after you signed up is "unethical"? That's a bit carried away, don't you think? There are unsubscribe buttons with laws that enforce that they work. Meanwhile hyperscalers are constantly in your eyes and ears and they have a million ways to bypass those regulations and get into your headspace regardless. Your URL bar is an ad. Your phone default settings and push notifications are ads. Your app s…

> Your URL bar is an ad. Your phone default settings and push notifications are ads. Your app store is an ad. Every new feature or OS update is an ad. Your new tab screen is an ad. Your browser updates are ads.

How do you define ads? Those are not ads in my book. An update is not an ad, I can't think of any valid interpretation of that other than "existence is an ad because people who interact with it might want to do do again" but at that point the word "ad" has lost all useful meaning.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#142

Post by RHSeeger »

amluto wrote: post #71
Youden wrote: post #7

How do you get email addresses? Do people freely and explicitly choose to sign up to your mailing list, or is it baggage that you're forcing on them without their consent? I notice that when I go to https://fontawesome.com/ and click "Start for Free", I'm asked for my email address. This isn't necessary for me to use the icons. I just need a page that tells me to add the necessary tags for cdnjs [0]. I think your pro…

Fun quote from the OP: > But here’s the part that really gets us. At our CORE, our instinct is to only email folks when we actually have something fun to share. A big release, something we’re excited about, news worth your time. I would prefer not to give my email address to a company that thinks that this should give them a good email reputation. If you email me because you are excited and I’m not, I probably think…

I don't mind if a company sends me emails if I gave them my email address. As long as, when I click "unsubscribe" to the email, they stop. I don't want to have to go log back into their system and unsubscribe. I just want to click the unsubscribe button and have it be done - forever, not just until they add a new category for email.

I have a fair number of companies that send me emails (because I signed up for their service) on a "slow" basis (ie, when they have something interesting.. not just "every week, so you don't forget us). I don't mind those. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. I don't unsubscribe and I don't mark them as spam.

I'm not saying you should be the same as me. I _am_ saying that, just because _you_ don't like it, doesn't make them "clearly in the wrong". Because there are people that feel like the way they are acting is reasonable.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#144

Post by RHSeeger »

ryandrake wrote: post #53
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of them are spamming you and you’re being nice to attribute to mistakes. Also, a lot of companies nowadays keep adding weird email topics that you need to constantly unsubscribe from. If I signed up and turned off all subscriptions, then anything they send is marked as spam immediately. The lack of cost in sending email makes it easy for them to keep abusing all the time.

I basically give companies 0 strikes anymore, and assume the "unsubscribe" link is at best, a dark pattern that only unsubscribes me from that 1 out of their 100 "channels," and at worst, confirms my E-mail address. "Report Spam" immediately.

I unsubscribe twice (allowing for one possible bug), then spam.

And, as others have noted, unsubscribe cannot involving going and logging into their system. If I need to do that, it generally goes directly to spam.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#145

Post by crote »

tzs wrote: post #97
fmx wrote: post #68

GMail disagrees with you, because GMail users disagree with you. They are clicking "report spam" on your emails. Whether or not you think what you're sending is spam, the recipients think it is, and that's what matters. (Based on the other comments in this thread it's not hard to see why they might think so.)

Users definitely click "report spam" in large numbers on things that are not spam. At work we've long had problems of getting reported for spam when the only things we send are: • A receipt when a person comes to our site and purchases something. • Their license key if what they purchased requires a license key. • Replies if they send email to customer support. • If they have purchased an automatically renewing subsc…

> If they have purchased an automatically renewing subscription we email a receipt after it renews (..) This is required by the major credit card companies.

The problem here is that "we are legally required to send it" and "our customers want to receive it" aren't necessarily the same thing. I'd probably be pretty annoyed by those if I had more than a few subscriptions!

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#146

Post by Arainach »

echelon wrote: post #96
EA-3167 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s angry? We’re just not interested in someone else’s unethical and unwelcome business practices and are acting to curtail its impact. Your dreams of business success aren’t my problem, and neither is your shamelessness.

Sending you an email after you signed up is "unethical"? That's a bit carried away, don't you think? There are unsubscribe buttons with laws that enforce that they work. Meanwhile hyperscalers are constantly in your eyes and ears and they have a million ways to bypass those regulations and get into your headspace regardless. Your URL bar is an ad. Your phone default settings and push notifications are ads. Your app s…

> Sending you an email after you signed up is "unethical"?

I purchase a product from company X. They require an email and will not let me buy without it. I actually do want an email confirmation that the order went through and even that my product shipped.

I do not want emails about "we released a new thing" or "we have a sale" or "it's Tuesday and we want you to remember we exist". Signing me up without an explicit opt-in using information you required me to provide is absolutely unethical.

"X is even worse" does not make Y ethical, good, or acceptable. What your least favorite corporations do isn't relevant.

Other people are inconsiderate monsters who litter in national parks and abandon mattresses on the side of the road. BP and Exxon did more damage to the environment than I ever could. It's still unethical if I drop my garbage on the ground.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#147

Post by Arainach »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #141
echelon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending you an email after you signed up is "unethical"? That's a bit carried away, don't you think? There are unsubscribe buttons with laws that enforce that they work. Meanwhile hyperscalers are constantly in your eyes and ears and they have a million ways to bypass those regulations and get into your headspace regardless. Your URL bar is an ad. Your phone default settings and push notifications are ads. Your app s…

> Your URL bar is an ad. Your phone default settings and push notifications are ads. Your app store is an ad. Every new feature or OS update is an ad. Your new tab screen is an ad. Your browser updates are ads. How do you define ads? Those are not ads in my book. An update is not an ad, I can't think of any valid interpretation of that other than "existence is an ad because people who interact with it might want to d…

> An update is not an ad

To be fair, I think echelon was calling out that there are absolutely ads in browser updates now. "Try Firefox VPN!" "Look what's new in Chrome!", etc.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#148

Post by semiquaver »

the__alchemist wrote: post #8

#1: Was this article written by an LLM? The phrasing implies there's a high chance #2: Is your company sending spam emails? I don't know how Gmail's system works, but I will mark any unsolicited email from businesses as spam. Perhaps Google uses that as a heuristic?

No question this was LLM. It absolutely stinks of it.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#149

Post by FireBeyond »

echelon wrote: post #59
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if this is true with Font Awesome, but more and more companies are spamming my inbox despite disabling any promotional emails in their settings. So, I mark any unwanted email as spam in Gmail immediately, and even leave bad reviews. Having my email address is not the same as having my consent. Stop trying to roofie us with malicious EULAs.

Are you an entrepreneur or an employee? Do you know how exceedingly hard it is to grow a business and how shameless you have to be in the face of adversity to make it work? It sucks. You have to do this stuff to get a customer relationship. The thing Apple and Google get for free and try so hard to snip you out of. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we regulated market monopolies and caused them to break up. More money t…

> Do you know how exceedingly hard it is to grow a business

This reminds me of a local bricks and mortar small business that closed down and the wife posted a completely tone deaf:

"It is a horrible shame that our long sought out dream had to die because the local "community" was not willing to support it."

I missed the part where "community" meant we are obligated to expend our own resources for your profit.

Doubly galling was the fact that there was generally "his n hers" G Wagons parked out front of their business. Doing better than 95% of the community and still pissed that the community wasn't giving them more.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#150

Post by FireBeyond »

SoftTalker wrote: post #113
fnord77 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do they have an easy-to-unsubscribe link in the marketing spam I've noticed a recent trend where unsubscribing actually does nothing

I've long noticed an old trend where subscribing somehow works instantly, but unsubscribing takes "60-90 days to process."

Yeah, the spin on that used to be "that's because we plan our campaigns in advance and use partners to handle them and we have to submit a final list and..." (insert several different types of horseshit here that might survive a passing glance but little more than that).
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