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Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

codespeak.dev

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Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#141

Post by dboreham »

dist-epoch wrote: post #93
the_duke wrote: post #19

This doesn't make too much sense to me. * This isn't a language, it's some tooling to map specs to code and re-generate * Models aren't deterministic - every time you would try to re-apply you'd likely get different output (without feeding the current code into the re-apply and let it just recommend changes) * Models are evolving rapidly, this months flavour of Codex/Sonnet/etc would very likely generate different co…

> Models aren't deterministic - every time you would try to re-apply you'd likely get different output So like when you give the same spec to 2 different programmers.

Also like this: https://codeassociates.github.io/conversations-with-claude/c...

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#143

Post by pron »

vidarh wrote: post #139
pron wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you're after is determinism, then your solution doesn't offer it. Both the formal specification and the code generated from it would be different each time. Formal specifications are useful when they're succinct, which is possible when they specify at a higher level of abstraction than code, which admits many different implemementations.

The point would presumably be to formalise it, then verify that the formal version matches what you actually meant . At which point you can't/shouldn't regenerate it, but you can request changes (which you'd need to verify and approve).

But the code produced from the formal spec would still be nondeterministic. And I believe CodeSpeak doesn't wish to regenerate the entire program with each spec change, but apply code changes based on the changes to the spec. Maybe there could be other benefits to formalisation in this case, but determinism isn't one of them.

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#144

Post by my_throwaway23 »

intrasight wrote: post #88
newsoftheday wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eventually, we'll end up in a world where humans don't need to touch code, but we are not there yet. Will we though? Wouldn't AI need to reach a stage where it is a tool, like a compiler, which is 100% deterministic?

We will and soon because it does not have to be deterministic like a compiler. It only has to pass all tests.

Who is writing the tests?

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#146

Post by good-idea »

jasonjmcghee wrote: post #135
good-idea wrote: post #129

"Shrink your codebase 5-10x" "[1] When computing LOC, we strip blank lines and break long lines into many"

I don't think this is the gotcha you think it is... I imagine this is before and after- not just after. As in, they aren't just making lines long and removing whitespace (something models love to do when you ask it to remove lines of code)

Yep, you're right, I read this too fast - it's also breaking long lines into many and I read this in reverse. I just imagined how much I could reduce my own LOC by adjusting the print width on my prettier settings..

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#147

Post by paxys »

I read through the thing and don't quite understand what this adds that the dozens of LLM coding wrappers don't already do.

You write a markdown spec.

The script takes it and feeds it to an LLM API.

The API generates code.

Okay? Where is this "next-generation programming language" they talk about?

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#148

Post by hmokiguess »

I'm gonna be honest here, I opened this website excited thinking this was a sort of new paradigm or programming language, and I ended up extremely confused at what this actually is and I still don't understand.

Is it a code generator tool from specs? Ugh. Why not push for the development of the protocol itself then?

Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English

#149

Post by lainproliant »

kleiba wrote: post #16

I cannot read light on black. I don't know, maybe it's a condition, or simply just part of getting old. But my eyes physically hurt, and when I look up from reading a light-on-black screen, even when I looked at only for a short moment, my eyes need seconds to adjust again. I know dark mode is really popular with the youngens but I regularly have to reach for reader mode for dark web pages, or else I simply cannot st…

I feel your pain. For me it is the opposite: I get headaches from bright backgrounds because I'm light-sensitive.
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