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Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

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Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#141

Post by insane_dreamer »

jameslk wrote: post #39

The need to hate on Grokipedia is weird to me. It’s another site on the web. It’s an experiment with LLMs. Who cares? It can be filled with a bunch of nonsense, whatever. The internet is like that. Maybe it’ll actually become something useful. Or it’ll inspire something useful. Regardless, there’s no such thing as bad publicity, so these articles just give the project airtime. Even commenters here mention they haven’…

> it's another site on the web

funded by the wealthiest man in the world who is aggressively pushing his own personal agendas, willing to spend $$$$ to do so, and controls one of the most widely used social networks

so no, it's not "another site on the web"

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#142

Post by relaxing »

refurb wrote: post #98
LexiMax wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk isn’t writing the articles, Grok is. The AI is necessarily biased based on what it's trained on, and the prompt it uses. Most of the time, there is a plausible deniability at play, which is what tech oligarchs rely upon to shape your world. Thankfully in the case of Grok, we know for a material fact that it uses a biased prompt because Twitter users have tricked it into being repeated publicly.

I have not heard of the biased prompt and since prompts are constantly refined, how do you know it's still in use? But I found this analysis interest... https://www.promptfoo.dev/blog/grok-4-political-bias/ *Our measurements show that: Grok is more right leaning than most other AIs, but it's still left of center. GPT 4.1 is the most left-leaning AI, both in its responses and in its judgement of others. Surprisingly,…

That study is hilarious. I can only assume the anuthors are being deliberately obtuse about “shared training data”. The policies listed have widespread public support, so it would seem quite unremarkable that the training data would reflect that stance.

> Despite their differences, we found numerous questions where all four models agreed within narrow margins. Remarkably, the vast majority of these agreements lean left:

> Universal Progressive Stances:

> Support for wealth taxes on fortunes over $50 million

> Agreement on raising minimum wage

> Support for stronger labor protections

> Criticism of corporate monopoly power

> Universal Conservative Stances (rare):

> Individual gun rights under the Second Amendment

> Some free market principles

> This suggests shared training data or safety measures pushing all models toward progressive economic positions.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#143

Post by JeremyNT »

eruci wrote: post #137

The fact that certain people have such strong opinions about the recently released Grokipedia tells me the grok is actually on to something.

It's definitely onto something: continuing to spread the lies, bullshit, and propaganda intended to benefit the world's wealthiest human and the associated regime kleptocracy.

Since he's unable to "buy" wikipedia and slowly poison it in the same way he poisoned Twitter, we get to see Musk build a new propaganda machine fresh, using a far less subtle hand.

Will it work to further erode our shared reality and entrench the oligarchy? Well, people inexplicably still use X despite obviously understanding it's overwhelmed with propaganda, so there's a real risk that this will work too.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#144

Post by smallmancontrov »

qcnguy wrote: post #127
card_zero wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not "authoritative", reliable. From WP:Reliable_sources "Articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." You can see summaries of past debates about specific sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per... If Grok is going to vet its sources, it will have to do a similar crowd-sourcing of opinion about them. The advantage…

Those debates just show why Grokipedia is needed. Truth seeking is the opposite, it's when you demand crowdsourced consensus that debates become endless and stupid. Here's a cut and dried case: the BBC admitted recently to broadcasting faked video of a Trump speech. It wasn't a mistake and the lying was institutional in nature, i.e. an internal whistleblower tried to get it fixed and BBC management up to the top view…

The lies that Trump used to send that mob to the capital are in a different galaxy of falsehood than the BBC editing down some of his less fiery invective. It's one hell of a choice to focus on the latter over the former. Your bar for the the left is on Mt Olympus, your bar for the right is buried underneath the Mariana Trench.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#145

Post by smallmancontrov »

tim333 wrote: post #123
qcnguy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The explicit stated goal of Grok is to seek out the truth. A lot of the internet doesn't do this. Wikipedia doesn't! As far as Wikipedia is concerned, if something is said by "authoritative sources" then it goes in, and something isn't then it doesn't, and what is actually true doesn't matter at all. They explicitly ban original research, even. But what gets blessed as authoritative, some backroom deals that always a…

Couple of points - What is absolute truth? You can get into long philosophical debates. As a practical matter Wikipedia goes with mainstream sources. The "stated goal of Grok is to seek out the truth" sounds good in theory but I fear it may be to reflect Musk's views in practice. If the options are either the NYT or the visions of Musk, I'll take the NYT personally.

You fear it may be? Is the LeBron episode not enough? The leaked system prompt? The "everything is white genocide" episode? Every time he promises to "fix" it when it says something he doesn't like?

Elon has proven again and again that he is making a propaganda bot, it is completely unreasonable to extend the monumental amount of charity required to look past this.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#146

Post by Timon3 »

tim333 wrote: post #122
echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See all the heavily biased content on the Joe Biden and Donald Trump articles? Why not start there? Try to see if you can contribute a more neutral voice. My guess is that the tone of these articles we see now is only the beginning. This thing is only a month old. Then this will become the source of truth in the LLMs. I cannot believe they've gone so against the spirit of contributors and that there's no legal recour…

I'm a contributor and I'm fine with it. I believe in creative commons and anyone can do what they want. I think people will ignore Musk's thing.

People might - but will AIs? Personally, I think the chance of all of "Grokipedia" being filtered from all AI datasets & search queries is fairly small.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#147

Post by andsoitis »

beloch wrote: post #100
andsoitis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grokipedia is far more than just the anti-Wikipedia. It's a sign of things to come if we don't start harden the systems, governmental or otherwise, that keep Wikipedia available to the public. That seems a bit paranoid. You worry that he US government will shut down Wikipedia and anything like it hosted anywhere in the world? Or alternatively block it when you’re in the US jurisdiction?

The distributed nature of Wiki's makes them hard to "shut down", but they can be blocked and the editors/contributors can be harassed, arrested, deported, etc.. Is it paranoid to think this might happen in the U.S.? Now? No, I think it's become depressingly plausible. As I said, consider what might have happened if Musk had stayed in Trump's good graces. If you don't think such a thing is plausible for this administr…

> As I said, consider what might have happened if Musk had stayed in Trump's good graces.

What do you imagine might have happened?

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#148

Post by qcnguy »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #144
qcnguy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those debates just show why Grokipedia is needed. Truth seeking is the opposite, it's when you demand crowdsourced consensus that debates become endless and stupid. Here's a cut and dried case: the BBC admitted recently to broadcasting faked video of a Trump speech. It wasn't a mistake and the lying was institutional in nature, i.e. an internal whistleblower tried to get it fixed and BBC management up to the top view…

The lies that Trump used to send that mob to the capital are in a different galaxy of falsehood than the BBC editing down some of his less fiery invective. It's one hell of a choice to focus on the latter over the former. Your bar for the the left is on Mt Olympus, your bar for the right is buried underneath the Mariana Trench.

If he really lied so badly they could have just broadcast those lies and held the moral high ground, but they didn't. They had to make things up (not "editing down", they spliced together sentences 50 minutes apart and hid what they did).

That should be a huge reality check for you. How do you even know that any of your opinions about Trump are true? You're getting them from the kind of people who fake videos of him. You should consider the possibility that nothing you know is accurate.

Re: Grokipedia is the antithesis of Wikipedia

#150

Post by qcnguy »

Kye wrote: post #132
qcnguy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation: go look at how many people are submitting edits to the articles. That is "many" people.

It's not my job to provide support for your point. Examples. It's trivial to cite them if they're in the edit log.

How very Wikipedian of you.

Go to grokipedia.com and look at the edit log yourself. It's two clicks. If you care about truth you'll do it.

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